6 Reasons Why Vegans (and Doctors) Are Wrong About Animal Protein

Here’s how stupid shit happens. You go to your doctor for something benign—like acid reflux, or some other condition that’s annoying, but not necessarily life-threatening. You’re here at DangerouslyHardcore.com, so you know what we do—and if you know about us, chances are you know about the Paleo movement and other dietary protocols that claim to stimulate massive fat loss, muscle gain, and good health.

Now, these all include meat and animal fat. Lots of it. Your doctor, however, tells you that the only way to be healthy and cure all your ailments—not just what you’re in his office to treat—is to swear off animal products and become a vegetarian or vegan. Seriously, they say this.

Your doctor may be a member of the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine. This organization seems to have two absolute criteria for membership: 1) Being vegan, and 2) Pushing a vegan lifestyle on patients regardless of the reasoning behind it. Dr. Joel Fuhrman is an excellent example of this, espousing the power of veganism despite looking for all the world, physically, like a sucked-out human wraith. Take a look. He’s frail, weak, and delicate—an absolute picture of good health.

Dr. Joel Fuhrman, militant vegan: Yeah, that looks healthy…

The Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine encourages “higher standards of ethics and effectiveness in research,” but what they mean by this isn’t what you think. It’s not better science they’re after. Rather, it’s poor science, so they can maintain the lie that a vegan lifestyle is healthy and that animal products are the devil. Paraphrasing here, members have said, during television interviews, that they “know the research doesn’t support a vegan lifestyle, per se, but we’re going to keep doing studies until we produce one that proves we’re right.”

This, unfortunately, is the complete opposite of science. The perfect vegetarian meal? I’ll take a prime cut of steak that came from a vegetarian cow, and so should you.

Here are the simple facts:

1)      Vegetarian diets cause a deficiency in vitamin B12 levels[1-2]. This doesn’t seem too important until you realize that vitamin B12 deficiency results in a condition called hyperhomocysteinemia[3-7], which is powerfully oxidative. I liken the effect on arterial tissue to running a cheese grater through the inside of your arteries, which readily explains the rise in stroke risk[8-10].

2)      Vegans suffer from protein malabsorption and amino acid deficiencies[11-19], some of which can be health-threatening[20]. Ever see an impressive vegetarian bodybuilder? Me neither.

3)      Vegetarian diets produce massive imbalances in the ratio of omega-6 to omega-3 fatty acids in the body[3, 21-23]. This constant supply of pro-inflammatory agents may be what ruins the immune system in vegetarians[24-29].

4)      Vegetarians have much higher levels of advanced glycation end products[30-31] which are a risk factor for kidney disease and atherosclerosis[31]—not to mention Alzheimer’s disease[32-35]. This may explain why large epidemiological studies picked up evidence of accelerated cognitive decline in vegetarians[36]. This also explains why vegans say the most batshit crazy stuff without even flinching.

5)      Name the mineral and vegetarians have a deficiency: zinc, iron, selenium, calcium and iodine[37-46]. This would explain their increased risk of bone fracture[47].

6)      Vegetarian diets don’t even protect against any type of cancer[36, 48-54]. It’s a myth. If you maintain healthy body fat levels, you’re just as “protected” from cancer, and health correlates with the amount of muscle mass you have[55-59]. Sick, scrawny Joel Fuhrman is f’ed, and Dr. Oz won’t fare much better.


Those are the glutes of a meat eater.

Now, despite this massive laundry list of ailments, every single one of them can be fixed with the addition of a few lean portions of meat per day[60-70]. That’s it. Even if you want to lower cholesterol levels (which is a whole ‘nother topic), it’s more effective to add lean animal protein to your diet than vegetable proteins[71-74].  Meat cures what ails vegetarians and vegans, not the other way around.

I would love to continue my rant on vegans, but I think the research speaks for itself. In the next article I’ll drop a part II about animal sources of omega-3 fatty acids and why they’re better. Until then, stop messing around with weak-ass food that grows from dirt, and forget the Cuisinart. Grab yourself some food from nature’s ultimate vegetable processing unit: the cow.


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  38. Rauma AL, Nenonen M, Helve T, Hanninen O.  Effect of a strict vegan diet on energy and nutrient intakes by Finnish rheumatoid patients.  Eur J Clin Nutr. 1993 Oct;47(10):747-9.
  39. Appleby PN, Thorogood M, Mann JI, Key TJ.  The Oxford Vegetarian Study: an overview.  Am J Clin Nutr. 1999 Sep;70(3 Suppl):525S-531S.
  40. Donovan UM, Gibson RS.  Dietary intakes of adolescent females consuming vegetarian, semi-vegetarian, and omnivorous diets.  J Adolesc Health. 1996 Apr;18(4):292-300.
  41. Lowik MR, Schrijver J, Odink J, van den Berg H, Wedel M.  Long-term effects of a vegetarian diet on the nutritional status of elderly people (Dutch Nutrition Surveillance System).  J Am Coll Nutr. 1990 Dec;9(6):600-9.
  42. Lightowler HJ, Davies GJ.  Micronutrient intakes in a group of UK vegans and the contribution of self-selected dietary supplements.  J R Soc Health. 2000 Jun;120(2):117-24.
  43. Lithell H, Vessby B, Hellsing K, Ljunghall K, Hoglund NJ, Werner I, Bruce A.  Changes in metabolism during a fasting period and a subsequent vegetarian diet with particular reference to glucose metabolism.  Ups J Med Sci. 1983;88(2):109-19.
  44. Donovan UM, Gibson RS.  Iron and zinc status of young women aged 14 to 19 years consuming vegetarian and omnivorous diets.  J Am Coll Nutr. 1995 Oct;14(5):463-72.
  45. Lightowler HJ, Davies GJ.  Iodine intake and iodine deficiency in vegans as assessed by the duplicate-portion technique and urinary iodine excretion.  Br J Nutr. 1998 Dec;80(6):529-35.
  46. Lightowler HJ, Davies GJ.  Assessment of iodine intake in vegans: weighed dietary record vs duplicate portion technique.  Eur J Clin Nutr. 2002 Aug;56(8):765-70.
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  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Mohannad-Afeef/1403684150 Mohannad Afeef

    I am a 10 year Gastroesophageal Reflux Disease (GERD) veteran. I have been on all kinds of proton pump inhibitors, heck, I am an expert on which ones are long acting, short acting, and which ones have fast or slow onset. I can recommend which ones are better than others but cannot really prescribe such treatments.
    However, I have the power of the expert to prescribe a “cure”, yes, a CURE for GERD sufferers…It is called The Carb Nite Solution.
    This is not a pro DH trying to make a market for a product, I am sure Kiefer is doing a pretty good job in that regard, I am just someone who really knows how irritating, difficult, and painful GERD is and want to make sufferers’ lives more easier and way enjoyable.
    Seriously, if you are a GERD veteran, The Carb Nite Solution is your only answer. I havent taken my Nexium since I started CNS 6 months ago and dont plan on taking any, I am done with GERD.
    I think we should do an RCT, have Nexium in one arm and CNS in the other…Oh AstraZeneca, your lovely Gastrointestinal line will be doomed by Dangerously Hardcore.

    • http://twitter.com/marctheiler Marc Theiler

      Thanks for the share, Mohannah, that’s great to hear, interesting.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Brandon-Christ/643268136 Brandon Christ

      I struggle from GERD occasionally and going low carb for a couple days always clears it up. Problem is since I am trying to get huge, I need to eat carbs…

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Mohannad-Afeef/1403684150 Mohannad Afeef

        Well, I guess there is a price for everything. I only get severe heart burn and reflux if I combine Carbs and Fats, not so much with Carbs and Protein. You may still enjoy CBL going with Carbs and Protein leaving the Fats to the ULC portion of the day or the week.
        However, I tried CBL for a while and did notice that GERD would act up really bad if I had some Cheesecake or Donuts :) Now that I am mainly doing CNS, I do not get heart burns at all even after finishing a whole large 6 cheese dominos pizza and down some nice donuts and ice cream afterward.
        Also, decreasing intake of things that causes the lower esophageal sphincter to relax might help (caffeine, alcohol, nicotine) but I dont smoke or drink..I am however addicted to Coffee and therefore even when I cut its intake I didnt have longer relief but with CNS I do not even have to worry about it. I go for 28 hot BW3 wings without any symptoms of GERD at all, something I was only able to do with Nexium.

      • Daniel Santiago

        what about just plain maltodextrin?

  • di

    Great article Kiefer. It seems like B12, Omega 3, and eggs introduced into a vegetarian diet would be a MAJOR improvement.

    By the way, I’m on Carb Nite and I love looking leaner after eating a ton of carbs. I was wondering about a few tweaks, though. 1. What is the effect of xylitol on the ULC? 2. What happens if you eat more than ten incidental carbs from veggies/eggs in one setting during ULC? 3. Is the fat loss stalling cause of dairy the high insulinemic index?

  • CoryMcC

    I think Lacto-Ovo Vegetarians need to be segregated from the Vegan, Fruitarian (i.e., Raw Vegetarian) and other lacking diets.
    I am a Lacto-Ovo, I get plenty of animal protein and fats (eggs / yolks, cheeses, heavy cream, grass-fed butter), I get more than 500% of my daily B-12 requirement, balance my Omega 3,6 and 9 intake, as well as all of my vitamins and minerals. From a combination of diet and supplementation. I do not eat any soy.
    Check my DH forum logs (CoryMcC), I have pictures up as well. All my muscle was built Lacto-Ovo, over the course of a little over 3 years now.
    CNS worked VERY well for me, with a steady loss of 1-2 lbs. of fat per week.
    Just thought I’d pipe in, b/c I hate the Vegan diet myself. Not to mention most Vegans are self-righteous jerks.
    Vegetarian bodybuilders? Bill Pearl and Roy Hilligenn (life-long).

    • CoryMcC

      Also… wanted to quote Kiefer, if I may (post dated July 27th) from this DH forum thread:
      “I’d like to exclude from the argument someone eating lacto-ovo because eggs and milk-derived products are rich, highly absorbed sources of protein and including these foods allows one to get adequate protein quality and quantity to grow well (as I’ve seen demonstrated).”
      Just trying to further press my opinion that Lacto-Ovo should not be even considered in the same ballpark as Vegans.


      • DHKiefer

        I completely agree (obviously).

        • Sid

          I’d be very interested in your guidelines for a lacto-ovo version of CBL.

          • CoryMcC

            I’ve done one month of CBL DB (as a Lacto-Ovo), this was last March. I’ve finished 6 months of CNS (as a lacto-ovo), and lost ~15% b/f. I am nearly dialed-in, so I am running a Modified-CNS (lacto-ovo) for now, to burn off those last fat stores. Seems to be working better than regular CNS, for me. Then again, I am pretty muscular, and train hard, so that might be why. Running the Mod-CNS with a 5-day FST-7 routine.
            My log is on the forums. My username is CoryMcC.

          • Sid

            Thanks! I’ll check out your log for sure! Glad to hear CBL is doable for a lacto-ovo.

    • Saav

      Of course Bill Pearl is not life-long. In fact he only went vegetarian after he stopped competing seriously I think.

      I am not disagreeing with your statements on lacto-ovo though. Nobody here wants to criticize the egg!

      • CoryMcC

        Nope, Bill Pearl wasn’t life-long (but he did continue to train, and maintain size, post-meat)… but definitely Hilligenn, by his own admission. Look at Hilligenn’s photos, impressive for the era he came from… and no different from other lifters of that era, size-wise. Very strong, too.
        The egg is incredible, isn’t it? :)

    • Joshua

      Not exactly a bodybuilder per se, but Michael Clarke Duncan was pretty muscular for a vegetarian. I don’t know what sub-type of vegetarian he was though. Coulda been ovo-lacto like you.

      • CoryMcC

        Not sure what MCD was… I think he may have been Vegan, b/c PETA had a hard-on for him, and they prefer Vegans. I think he was bigger before he converted, and he clearly lifted… with 20+ inch arms.

      • Ben

        Didn’t he die from a heart attack or stroke?

        • DHKiefer

          Yes died of a stroke at very young age. And a vegan/vegetarian has been associated with a higher risk of stroke via lowered B12 levels and the resulting hyperhomocysteinemia.

          • Den

            He died of a heart attack

          • vegtildead

            he took growth hormones, lettuce didn’t cause his heart attack

      • justjoseph

        Steroids are vegan

    • justjoseph

      steroids are vegan

  • nonyabizzz

    #1 is true. But without defining what you are calling a “vegan” or “vegetarian diet”, your claims are not supportible. You can eat a “vegan” diet which is horrible. And you can include meat in your diet and still be pretty healthy. But your blanket statements are just not credible. Dr. Oz is not a good example, and Fuhrman is sick? Since when?

    • DHKiefer

      If you’d check the sources, you’ll see they’re based on free-living populations of vegans and vegetarians. If you read down a little farther in the comment thread, you’ll see a clarification. And yes, I would call Joel Fuhrman sickly. His only claims to health are those based on now antiquated metrics like cholesterol levels and blood pressure. Health means so much more.

      • gmarceau

        How important is blood pressure in overall health, btw? This has always been somewhat of an issue for me, even with low bodyfat/weight.

    • davidl351

      Kiefer did not say Fuhrman is sick. He said Fuhrman looks like out a “sucked-out human wraith” and is “frail, weak, and delicate”. The picture captions rhetorically state, “yeah, that looks healthy…”

  • zombiesarepimps

    Even if this article was accurate (which it is not) then it misses a major point. Eating food is not exclusively a nutritional pursuit. What we eat is also a moral question and that question of morality clearly comes down on the side of vegans. If we don’t necessarily have to eat meat, cheese, milk and eggs, then we only do so out of our own selfish desire for pleasure. We are inflicting pain and suffering without justification. It is unethical and unjustifiable to consume beings that can suffer simply because we like the taste.

    Anyone who consumes meat is utilizing the same logic a rapist might use. The rapist might say in his or her defense, “I just LOVE raping people, I enjoy it.” That is not a justification for inflicting suffering and death on others.

    1. It is wrong to inflict unnecessary pain and suffering on an animal. 2. Pleasure, convenience or tradition cannot be considered necessary or else you have an exception to the rule so big you can justify anything. 3. 99% of what we just animals for today is only in the name of pleasure, convenience or tradition. 4. Therefore it is unethical to use animals.

    And give me a break! I can’t believe people actually believe any of this nonsense. When was the last vegan you heard of dying of heart failure or cancer or a stroke? These are diseases that come from a meat-eating, animal product using society. These diseases are rampant and veganism is an extreme minority. Eating meat is killing our fathers, mothers, sons and daughters and yet we continue to do it anyway.

    Milk is growth hormones. That what it is designed to do. It is used to grow a baby cow into a cow that weighs well over a ton. What do people not make the connection that if you drink milk milk milk designed to do that and then in addition loaded with EXTRA growth hormones your body is going to get diseases that are literally diseases of unchecked growth, i.e. cancer and obesity.

    • Soul

      1. You make general statements with no proof. 2. The arguments you make are purely emotional. 3. Therefore you are wrong in you arguments and no one should listen to you. 4. I recommend two pints of beef bloodinjected intravenously into you to combat your vaginitis. http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=GRfWC6foKHU&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DGRfWC6foKHU

      • zombiesarepimps

        HAHA. All emotional arguments are wrong. You are such a twat.

        • justjoseph

          AD-HOMINUM ATTACKS. Vegans always do this. Fortunately, they are so few as to be irrelevant, so we can all just ignore them, and we do, and we always will.

      • zombiesarepimps

        You do know you can’t PROVE that killing is wrong right? There is no PROOF that stealing is wrong. We take ethical stands on things all the time without PROOF. It is not an equation to be figured out.

      • zombiesarepimps

        I think the guy didn’t bother to read his sources. Here are some quotes DIRECTLY from the studies he referenced:
        “Overall, the data suggest that the health of Western vegetarians is good and similar to that of comparable non-vegetarians.”
        “Vegetarian parents and their preschool children had a lower vitamin B-12 intake than omnivorous parents and their preschool children but similar plasma vitamin B-12 and homocysteine concentrations.”
        “Nutrient intakes and status were generally adequate in preschool children who did not eat meat.”
        “Given a balanced diet, adequate nutrient intakes and status can be maintained without consuming meat.”

    • Papa Hogg

      Remember that when the farmer gets in his tractor to go harvest the wheat for the bread you eat or the lettuce for your salad or the soybeans for your fake burgers he’s crushing a family of field mice or groundhogs…so as a vegan or vegetarian you are also contributing to the deaths of innocent animals.

      Do you live in a house or an apartment? A colony of ants were killed so you can have a roof over head. Everyone that is alive today has blood on their hands, as omnivores we accept it and face it daily, which you could argue is more moral than living in denial & judging others.

      Obviously your brain is addled due to the lack of saturated fat, now I need to go finish making my crock pot full of Loco Moco

      • zombiesarepimps

        There is an ethical distinction between directly causing the unnecessary suffering and death of someone and causing it inadvertently through some other means.

        Let me give an example. When we build a road we know for a fact people will die on that road due to car accidents and collisions. We know, that by building that road people will die when those same people would have lived if that road hadn’t been built. However, we don’t BLAME the engineer and workers who built the road. They are not at fault for the deaths on the road in the same way a drunk drive is directly responsible for hitting and killing someone. There is an ethical distinction and our legal system reflects that as well as our consciousnesses.

        So if someone kills and eats an animal they are knowingly and intentionally harming and killing an animal when it is unnecessary. However when I eat corn that was picked in a field and mice died in that field due to the picking of the corn I am not at fault in the same way a meat eater is directly responsible for his or her actions. Eating corn does not equate to killing an animal even if in the way we set up our agricultural system animal’s live’s are lost due to agricultural farming practices.

        ALSO if you take a strict utilitarian perspective vegans still come out on top because an omnivore is then responsible for the cow, chickens, sheep, fish and many more animals they directly kill and ingest but they are also responsible (by your logic) for all the animals that died in the agricultural process required to feed those animals. All that feed that was grown for those cows caused a lot of field mice to die. In addition you also eat corn, soy etc. I imagine so you are responsible for a much greater amount of lives lost than a vegan is.

        Your argument is so often used to challenge veganism we see it all the time. Frankly, it is laughable.

        • tarius729

          im going to increase my intake of meat now. thats the kind of influence you hold ;D

          • tarius729

            may even eat a vegan or two… probably better than grass fed beef

          • zombiesarepimps

            Ugh. It is like talking to a brick wall.

          • tarius729

            hell yea it is… thats what eating meat does… makes a man strong and sturdy like a brick fucking wall. youre soft & weak like some mushy brussel sprouts ;D

          • zombiesarepimps

            Sigh….I personally think being manly has more to do with having your own principals, not following the crowd and questioning authority. You are a drone and you follow what all the commercials for Taco Bell and McDonalds have programmed you to do. Wow! Associating eating meat with masculinity HOW ORIGINAL! (sarcasm) I am ashamed to be part of the same species as you.

          • tarius729

            i have my own principals and they include advocating a balanced diet which includes lots of animal protein and not pandering to the insufferable whining of estrogen-infused PETA crybabies that feel i should put the animal’s rights first before the needs of my own body. animals are here on this earth for my sustenance only.
            i dont eat fast food, whether its taco bell, mcdonalds or what have you. i prepare my own food and i eat all different cuts of beef, chicken, salmon, eggs, milk, cheese, and more.
            and yes, i am associating the consumption of meat with masculinity. All the B vitamins, zinc, saturated fat, and natural creatine in beef is essential in the production of testosterone, which is vital to masculinity.
            enjoy your estrogen, cause you sound like a real bitch ;D

          • justjoseph

            You are a drone for all this vegan PROPAGANDA.

          • justjoseph

            EXACTLY. Less than .01% of the worlds population are vegans, so everyone will always just ignore them. Unless they get violent. Then we get to throw them in jail or kill them. Quixotic. Stupid. Gullible. Delusional. Phony. Self righteous. Annoying

          • Sebastian

            Way to pull a number out of your butt.

            propaganda (noun)
            information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view.

            [In case you didn’t catch on, I’m implying that you are the drone spouting propaganda. You should really consider at least fact checking before you speak nonsense to promote an irrational point of view.]

        • http://twitter.com/nthmost Naomi Most

          That’s absurd. You are indeed directly participating in the killing of an animal when you consume the products of agriculture.

          In fact, it’s worse. When you consume farmed food in America, you are implicitly advocating for the use of tax-based subsidies to keep that kind of “killing field” approach alive.

          So, I would suggest, if you want to stay consistent with your anti-killing-animals beliefs, that you stop paying taxes and start eating only food you grow in your own garden.

          “All that feed that was grown for those cows caused a lot of field mice to die”

          That would be a good point if meat-eaters cared. We don’t. You do. It’s not inconsistent with our beliefs that a few animals died such that we may live. So.

        • Sebastian

          Well said zombiesarepimps.

      • Ian

        Apparently these people only care about the lives of big, fluffy or otherwise “cuddly” animals that look too cute to slaughter.

        • justjoseph

          That’s just plan stupid. Dogs have helped man to survive. So have horses.
          We slaughter PLENTY of cute animals.

      • Sebastian

        A vegan wouldn’t go out of his/her way to kill an ant (or any other animal). If we step on an ant walking down a street, that’s an unfortunate accident. If we kill an animal because it is harming us, that’s self preservation. If humans are involuntarily killing large number of animals, that’s probably a human overpopulation problem.

        Anyone that has thought about where their food comes from and still chooses the most cruel diet (the rape, torture, and murder of animals), is the one in denial (and possibly a psychopath). People who are this anti-vegan, tend to be the same people who can’t even treat another human with compassion or dignity.

    • DHKiefer

      Way to not reply to the point of the article which is: Veganism is not as healthy as a diet that includes meat. Please stay on point.

      • Anne Dreya

        (S)he also neglected to mention that food choice is not only a moral/ethical choice, but may be an environmental and/or cultural one as well. I would like to see someone go up to the circumpolar region and advocate a vegan diet. I don’t think that would fare well, given cultural norms.

        • zombiesarepimps

          So should we be okay with slavery justified on cultural grounds? Should the Union have forced the abolition of slavery upon the South? It was undeniably a major part of the culture in the South to own and participate in slavery.

          • Rex

            In the U.S., everything is justified on cultural grounds pursuant to the Tenth Amendment to the United States Constitution, except those things that the people have excepted from it, through Article V, like slavery, as set forth in the Thirteenth and Fourteenth Amendments. School starts in September — be there.

          • Greg

            Does she not realize the amount of mice, bunnies, deer, birds, snakes, squirrels, racoons, opossums, etc that are killed by the tractors/ have their habitat destroyed from the clearance of land to plant wheat, corn etc. I can eat a pound of meat every day for a year and kill less than one animal.

          • SJG

            A vegan diet, for a lot of people, isn’t about animal cruelty/killing. For many, like myself, the issues are environmental health, personal health and longevity, and global health (especially the health of those who could be fed but aren’t because around 80% of grain and similar crops grown in the US go to animals being rampantly bred and raised for meat, instead of directly into the mouths of humans). Being a vegan decreases the harm that is done to the planet, the depletion of food for hungry people, and (when done properly) the risk of several illnesses.
            P.S. most of the land that is plowed or cleared to plant crops is designated to feed animals being raised for food. If the whole world was vegan, there would be no need to clear more fields, as the current number would suffice. The number of animals killed on an omnivorous diet, therefore, is the number of animals killed in fields that you mentioned plus the animals you actually consume. Most vegans that are vegans for cruelty reasons understand that they are reducing, not eliminating, the amount of suffering they contribute to.

          • Greg

            Eating meat that is raised on grass does not require land to plant wheat that ruin the soil, account for lots of oil pesticides, etc. so “no” most of the land plowed is not for the meat that I eat. research joel salatin. Again I can eat meat everyday for a year and kill one animal because I am not eating meat that ate the grain. and if the whole world was vegan there would be a bunch of skinny, limp dick B12 injectors and steroids users walking around claiming how healthy veganism is and no one wants that..not to mention the health problems that come with eating wheat and soy and the amount of women that would not be able to get pregnant

          • alexb

            skinny, limp dick B12 injectors and steroids user

            Such a load of bullshit it’s hard to know where to begin. I don’t begrudge anyone their meat eating btw, go on and eat meat…when the inevitable food shortage comes meat will triple in price (at least) and all of you people who can’t live a day without some form of animal protein will be knifing each other over table scraps from the wealthy who will be able to continue their meat habit.

            And exactly the opposite is true when it comes to the plumbing…not having rotting meat sitting in my stomach has made it better not worse. But even going vegan alone wasn’t enough…the real change happened when I went to eating once a day. So I guess I could be characterized as a vegan warrior dieter, or something. Anyway….I do not miss meat at all. I still occasionaly have fish when I visit relatives and certain relatives your just obliged to still eat meat or you sit there and eat nothing….so in the last 2 years I can count on less than one hand how many times i’ve eaten meat. It just isn’t necessary. I’m still maintainging a bw of almost 250lbs and my strength is slowly returning to what it was years ago when I was meat eating roid user. Still have a ways to go but I can lift heavy again week after week, my joints are like they were when I was in my teens…maybe better because I had some serious shoulder problems back then. The joint issues I’ve been dealing with for the last 2 years became alleviated by switching to the vegan diet, but are COMPLETELY gone by eating once a day and doing one approx 36 hour fast in the middle of the week. So I’m good on vegetable proteins, y’all can stab each other over squirrel leavings cause I can now subsist on what grows out of the ground. I don’t need an animal to eat it for me first.

          • Cly

            That rotting meat in the stomach argument always makes me laugh. People like you are no better than the religious when it comes to debates.

          • http://twitter.com/kellytruths kelly

            “That rotting meat in the stomach argument always makes me laugh. ”

            Justify this? Thank you!

          • http://twitter.com/kellytruths kelly

            “Eating meat that is raised on grass does not require land to plant wheat that ruin the soil, ”

            Yes, sustainability studies say raising grass-fed beef alone is not sustainable. Ref: Cowspiracy documentary.

          • justjoseph

            OK, now you are equating the omnivores with slave holders.
            Sometimes veganism looks like mental illness, kinda like Jehovah Witnesses.

        • zombiesarepimps

          Also, it is undeniably better for the environment to not eat meat and animal products. Animal agriculture produces MORE greenhouse gases than all of transportation combined according to the UN study “Livestock’s Long Shadow”.

          I guess I just realized you meant environmental not in an environmentalist sense. Oh well, I think the point is still an important one.

          • DHKiefer

            Again, you’re ignoring the fact that the vast majority of farming uses artificially produced nitrates with a significant contribution to greenhouse gases and pollution. Before you attempt the asinine argument in favor or organics, you better tread lightly, as organics, at the level needed to supply even 50% of the world is untenable. I think you’re out of your element here.

          • zombiesarepimps

            First off, I am not arguing for organics. Organics do not equal vegan and veganism does not equal organics. Veganism is an ethical stance. You can eat potato chips and sugar all day and possibly be vegan, that doesn’t mean you are being healthy. Don’t try and conflate the two. You are spreading misinformation.

            No other process is as inefficient as the production of animal protein. I learned in my high school biology class that as you move up the food chain you lose 90% of the nutritional value at each major stage. When you eat a cow, you are eating what the cow ate, only filtered incredibly inefficiently through their body. Why not just go to the source and eat what the cow eats? If this is all about getting big and muscular why are the biggest creatures on the planet all vegans and vegetarians? Cows? Whales? Gorillas? Elephants? It is like you guys don’t use common sense or something.

            If you really are trying to be as efficient as possible in the name of feeding the global population of humans you can’t possible consume animal products because when you eat a cow that cow had to be fed and given water throughout its entire life. Use your brain. If we just gave those grains and water directly to starving people around the world instead of feeding the cows we eat than more people would have more food.

            There is NO ARGUMENT for eating animal products. This cultural debate isn’t a debate because a debate implies there are rational responses on both sides. On the side of eating meat is just irrational, emotional calls to tradition and the norm and what feels good. ALL OF REASON AND LOGIC is on the side of vegans. The only reason people (including myself at one point in my life) continue to consume animals is because everyone else does it. Wake up and leave The Matrix. Open your eyes Neo.

          • MauriceF

            lol…. i like the high school reference, silly kid. That 90% energy loss is because we don’t have 4 stomachs and cannot process fiber, duh.

            If the other billion+ people cared about eating more rice and feeding themselves they would, but these countries are involved in many different (political and economical) things that take priority other than feeding their country, I’m referring to the leaders of the country, not the staring people.

            secondly, if the people could eat meat the way we do, they would. If you have ever been outside of the country you know its a delicacy, and people who came to the US are eating how they like, not how they would have if they were not as fortunate in the other country.

            Until you take away the right to be rich, and to take away the property and resources required to do so (like meat, and dairy, etc in the analogy) from other people (million+people who are starving), and have them live to the standards that EVERYONE else has, we have the choice to live a healthy life while others choose the wrong way. Remember, plants are alive too, don’t hurt their feelings….

            Lastly, a Matrix reference? Really? How old are you?
            x2 Rex, maybe the money he saved being vegan will help him with that

          • formerveggie

            thank you, I couldn’t agree more with anything you just said!!

          • SJG

            FINALLY, someone using his/her brain. Those arguing for meat really should just leave the environmental element out of it, because the vegans have it won. It is a fact undisputed by anyone who looks at current data (or simply uses common sense and a couple of principles learned in 9th grade biology class) that the production of animals for food is extremely wasteful and environmentally hazardous. Small example: it takes, on average, about twenty times more land and 100 times more water to produce a serving of meat versus a serving of plant-based foods.

          • Ian

            What exactly would you say to all the environmental biologists studying agriculture’s effect on usable topsoil who suggest that we’ve got perhaps 60 some-odd years left of corn and grain agriculture, before we run out of it, completely; that wheat farming is entirely unsustainable?

            The central issue is overpopulation. What exactly is your solution to that problem, pray tell?

            There are valid arguments from all sides of this equation. To suggest that anyone opposing your views are not using their brain is in itself illogical.

          • formerveggie

            I agree… these guys aren’t taking into account the fact that most livestock is raised off of grain… which they should NOT be. We could save that land by not raising any grain and instead letting the cows eat grass like they’re meant to. And take some of that grain land and raise GOOD vegetation that humans and animals SHOULD be eating…. I used to be a vegetarian because I used to buy into all that stuff they’re saying. gah.

          • Taco Emperor

            Yes, thank you for illustrating that angle, Mr. Formerveggie. It seems entirely closeminded of Mr. Zombiesarepimps to suppose that cows are actually intended to eat corn.

          • Cly

            Actually, cows originally ate ‘tree hay’…leaves on low branches. It is humans that forced them in to eating grass constantly, as a way of keeping animals as livestock in a much easier way and to increase breeding yields than trapsing round the countryside to let them forage. Not a criticism of the practice, just saying.

          • Gus Mueller

            So you’re actually saying WE’RE GOING TO RUN OUT OF DIRT?

          • Laurie

            Cows eat grass. People can’t eat grass. Cows turn something that people can’t eat into something we can. And they don’t need fertilizers, plows, combines and most of the time, not even any supplemental water. This means that they use few or no resources, and in doing so, they prevent topsoil loss and further enrich the soil.

            That is an EXCELLENT argument for eating animals.

            Also, one life for almost 1000 lbs of pastured animal food, but hundreds of lives for row crop foods. If you want to do the least harm, take the fewest lives and protect the environment and the soil, eat pastured animals instead of grains and legumes and stop pretending your pious belief system is anything but a fairytale that the wfpb community tells itself so that it doesn’t have to accept responsibility for the collateral lives it takes.

          • Gus Mueller

            A lot of whales are stonecold badass meat eaters who eat entire animals whole. Gorillas are omnivores.

            “Why not just go to the source and eat what the cow eats?”

            whichiswhycowshaveloosepoops. Why don’t we just shit everywhere like cows do?

          • zombiesarepimps

            Wait I am out of my element? You have a degree in Mathematics and Physics. Since when does that make you an expert on agriculture or environmental science? Give me a break. I don’t claim to be an expert on any of this but don’t act like you have some special privileged knowledge that the rest of us peasants can’t access.

          • hahaha

            Argument from Authority. You’re OBVIOUSLY out of your element; you’re not smart enough to realize you’re being an idiot.

          • Kymus

            Bollocks. This has been thoroughly debunked and discredited using a lot of data.

            Read this (http://www.amazon.com/Meat-Benign-Extravagance-Simon-Fairlie/dp/1603583246); it’ll cost you, at most, $10. It goes into extremely fine detail on the subject of animal products and the environment and it references numerous studies on both sides of the debate.

    • Kymus

      “Anyone who consumes meat is utilizing the same logic a rapist might use. The rapist might say in his or her defense, “I just LOVE raping people, I enjoy it.””

      I eat meat because it is nourishing, nutrient dense, and my body flourishes on it.

      “These are diseases that come from a meat-eating, animal product using society.”

      That is a claim that has never been proven. There is not a single study that has shown this. There are, however, a number of shoddy epidemiological studies done on the standard american diet which show that refined and processed foods correlate with disease.


      Do you agree that correlation does not prove causation? “Milk is growth hormones. That what it is designed to do.” What vegan website did you copy and paste this claim from? Source please :).

      I’m curious as to specifically which biochemical compounds in milk grow a calf into a cow. Without breast milk, then, how do humans grow in to humans? Answer: it’s not the milk; we are all designed to grow out the way we do. The nutrients in the milk simply help us grow better. This is why breast milk is better than formula. Still, as long as one meets their minimal nutritional requirements, they will still live and as such, they will grow.

      “What do people not make the connection that if you drink milk milk milk designed to do that and then in addition loaded with EXTRA growth hormones your body is going to get diseases that are literally diseases of unchecked growth, i.e. cancer and obesity.”

      You’re using a fallacious argument by lumping together industrial milk with pasture-based raw milk. Raw milk from pasture-raised cows contains nutrients that stave off cancer (fat soluble vitamins and fatty acids; likely enzymes as well). There is little to no nutritional content in industrially farmed milk that is also homogenized and pasteurized.

      Stop copy and pasting disinfo from random vegan websites. Get an education in science (or at least the scientific method, nutritional biochemistry, and medical terminology), and spend time reading actual science and not the baseless opinion of others.

      • Kymus

        addendum: The Swiss of Loetchental Valley seemed to sure thrive on dairy:


        They had almost no cavities, their faces and bodies were very well developed, and their immunity was fantastic.

        Why aren’t these people as big as a cow? Why aren’t they sick?

        Science > Internet copypasta

    • dumbass

      All you did here is construct a straw-man. Way to go.

    • JonR

      If you vegans care about animals so much, stop eating all of their food!

      • Wowzers

        peta = Please End This Absurdity
        People Eating Tasty Animals: Vegetarianism gone batty since 1980

      • http://twitter.com/kellytruths kelly

        Humans eat far lesser of their foods than animals farm-raised to eat their food. Cos they are forced to be mated and overpopulate. Not the animals’ fault of course.

        • justjoseph

          You really have no idea what you are talking about.

          • http://twitter.com/kellytruths kelly

            When animals eat our grains, of course we are eating lesser of our earth’s foods. Did not occur to you? Another reason why vegans and vegetarians have higher IQ. :)

    • John Ryder

      so true!!! fuck the stupid omnivores/carnivores who claim that bullshit, apparently some fucking meat industry owners who just wanna make money by telling people to continue to eat animal products! as if they give a fuck about the healthiness of people, all they care about is fucking MONEY!

      We do not have canines, lions have canines, lets see you jump on a zebra and kill it with those impressive canines you think you have! At best you might bite off a little fur…that would be it… you do not have canines!

      Human canines are small and pointed just enough to tear through the skin of fruit that is what our canines are designed for, learn about the jaw movement anatomy of humans and herbivores, we have the same jaw movement of cows we grind our food with molars, tigers rip and swallow no chewing. Plus carnivores bodies can create vitamin C herbivores like us, need to eat our vitamins C, compare the strength of our digestive acids and length of our digestive systems and we match up with herbivores again.

      Look at the heart disease, cancer, osteoporosis, etc…. all these human diseases are directly linked to meat and dairy consumption! We are not designed to consume animals or their secretions. We are designed to be herbivores and that is why the healthiest diet is a vegan diet!

      Look at what people do that have severe health problems like Bill Clinton… they go Vegan to get healthy! It is obvious to people who are not blinded by their addiction to meat and dairy. Veganism is the healthiest human diet!

      • justjoseph

        Oh, I’m sure you get paid for what you do, even if it’s for PETA.
        “Omnivores”? Oh, you are referring to 99.9% of the world’s population!
        Gosh, what scumbags they are!

    • Taco Emperor

      One important thing to remember, if in fact you are choosing to go the ethical route, is that all human agriculture destroys habitat and almost all of it corrupts soil in some way. So no human diet could ever sustain 7 billion people without some animal suffering. Also, as cows are only approx. 10% efficient when it comes to food, I will not make a case continuation of the Big Ag beef industry. However, Gallus Domesticus, the chicken, has a 50% food to weight conversion rate and feeds on corn.Since more corn can be grown per acre than food crops like soybeans, I would argue that a diet consisting of mainly poultry and game meat is just as environmentally conscious as a vegan diet. And on the murder side of it, you forget that all animals, humans included, have to die sometime, and so I argue that since livestock have insufficient cognitive function to, for lack of better terms, care if their buddies are dead, I conclude that the systematic killing of animals for selfish gain is entirely justified and presents no ethical conundrums to any “human supremacist”, which I think almost everyone would admit to being.

    • justjoseph

      RAPE. Yes, RAPE!
      Sometimes Veganism looks like mental illness, doesn’t it?

    • Gus Mueller

      “1. It is wrong to inflict unnecessary pain and suffering on an animal.”

      So animals are sinners and need to be punished is what I hear you saying.

      Where do you get this “milk is growth hormones” nonsense? Calves stop drinking milk pretty early.

  • IntegralNutrition

    What do you think of SuperStarch and Jeff Volek’s white papers on it? http://www.generationucan.com/download.html

  • garymar

    I agree with our vegan friend about unnecessary suffering, so we should strictly regulate CAFOs to provide the animals a decent life while alive. Pigs and chickens should NOT spend their entire lives in crowded cages! When the time comes, we should butcher them humanely.

  • Dan

    I think most of the benefits of any type of diet that appears to improve health (vegetarian, vegan, paleo, CBL etc.) are mostly down to what people avoid on a regular basis more so that what they eat. Enforcing these “rules” improve peoples food selections the majority of the time.
    One of the main issues of a vegan/vegetarian diet is the distinct lack of caloric and nutrient density and bioavailability of plant foods. You have to eat more of a wider vareity of foods to make up to make up bodies nutritional needs, especially in an athletic population. Liver, for instance, has been proven to one of the most nutrient dense foods available to us and to get the equivalent vitamins and minerals from plant foods would require a vastly greater intake.
    In a related matter from a sustainability point of view you could not feed the world on a vegan diet. The vast tracts of land require for agriculture would destroy much of the natural habitat available. Yes grazing also causes habitat destruction but you simply get more calories per hectare on raising animals than you do growing crops.
    Most of the issues related to meat intake would reduce if we made greater use of the animal and actually consuming all of it rather than just the lean muscle cuts. Unfortunately alot of societies have gotten away from this.

  • Booch

    Don’t use the pain and suffering argument. Why is it morally
    wrong to kill a cow but not ants? We have exterminators? What about
    cockaroaches? When does an animal get rights? If its fuzzy and cuddly or just
    bigger than other animals? If you want to use that argument you’d have to take
    into account self-awareness. Thats what seperates human beings from animals.
    Because we have a personal identity and are “aware” of ourselves and
    others around us. Does a cow wake up in the morning and reflect on the past
    week and make up plans for the next few days, maybe think about it’s friendships and
    what it means to be a cow? The answer is no if you didn’t catch the sarcasm.
    The cow wakes up and eats. Thats about it. There isn’t an organized society of
    laws and moral standards in the animal kingdom because its a world of eat or be eaten. Guess what, human beings are animals and we’re the apex predator. Livestock has always been food
    and always will be. If a cow was self-aware, and understood what was going on around it like in animated movies, then I might feel different about eating it. But it it doesn’t. It should be raised well (grass fed) and put down humanely.. but
    seriously, it’s a friggin cow…
    This is a website dedicated to
    people who want to excel above the norm in fitness, personal aesthetics and athletics.
    Don’t expect to post some anti-meat messages and be welcomed with open arms. If
    you know anything about DH, you’ll know that carb nite and CBL require a ton of
    meat, every day. This probably isn’t the crowd to pick a fight with cause no
    matter what point you make, you’ll be wrong.

    • noah

      also bacteria. “oh no, my body commits genocide every time I get the sniffles”

      • Alex

        Bacteria does not have a central nervous system.

        • Ian

          Whether they feel pain or not doesn’t mean they’re not living cellular structures.

          • You are sorta stupid

            The point of veganism is to reduce cruelty and pain for animals. (and be healthy, but you probably believe in all the bullshit in this article since soymilk and other vegan products totally don’t have supplements already added because companies are that stupid. -.-) If an animal dies, such as a pet etc., then vegans try to give the animal the most humane death there is, they dont try to stop the animal from dieing (because like wtf everybody dies, you can’t stop an old dog from dieing using magical fucking powers). People are vegans because of the moral reasons (killing animals to eat them, inhumane animal raising etc.), so yeaaaa, bacteria die. Everybody knows that.

    • Hi

      Who ever said it is moral to kill ants? I’m a vegan and I never use any bug poison etc., I only use repellent. Also, It’s a friggin cow. So what? It feels pain, it knows love. It’s sorta like when a human is born with a mental defect. (I know, I know, you are going to hate on me for that, but I love cows as much as humans so I dont mean it offensively).

    • Mikeus79

      Zombiesarepimps, do you own any pets

  • Kymus

    DHK, a comment and a question:

    1) Would you be able to supply me with the quotes that you mention from the PCRM? I agree that they willingly distort the science and play fast and loose with the truth (after I got an education in nutrition, it became obvious), but I have always seen them act rather certain about their flawed cohort studies and Campbell’s rat study.

    2) There are vegan and vegetarian body builders. Vegan Fitness Magazine always puts them on the cover. I’m not making any claims about their general health, and I have no knowledge concerning their performance or success in the sport of bodybuilding, I’m just saying that they’re out there.

  • Erok

    Great article. But #2: wasn’t Bill Pearl’s last Mr. Universe title after being vegetarian for a couple years?

  • rocpnkcrap

    I guess I’m a little late to the party so I’ll try not to beat a dead horse too much (no pun intended). New to the site and concept of CBL, which I am enjoying immensely after barely a week. I’m still searching for clarification on some of the excercises in shockwave but I’ll get there.

    My comment/question to those with moral or ethical dilemmas with killing and eating animals: I am all for humane treatment of other living things, but I kind of get the feeling that no matter what kind of evidence were presented to some of you in favor of what you don’t WANT to be true, your minds are already made up. Do you justify buying diamonds by not being the one DIRECTLY causing the war-torn countries’ conditions and political unrest? Do you justify buying clothing made in other countries by not KNOWING they’re made in sweatshops? These are of the same logic as letting a few mice crushed by farming equipment be written off as collateral damage for your needs (wants). This essentially makes you the rapist’s lawyer in the story if you think about it. If you truly believed in what you write, though, you’d be growing your own crops and harvesting them EXACTLY as you wanted them to be.

    What’s that you say? It’s a lot of hard work? It’s not convenient to grow your own crops? You don’t have the time, space or money to be fully self-sufficient like that? Welcome to reality. If we had to eat 40 pounds of bamboo to get the same nutrition as a burger patty, convenience is going to win. All I’m getting at is that ignorance or not being the trigger man is no excuse. If you’re not being part of the cure, you can’t get on others for being part of the disease.

    Anyway, the real reason I was going to comment before I saw all that tomfoolery was to ask a question. I have life-threatening food allergies. I have actually outgrown some of them, but one that does not look like it’s ever going to go away is that to fish. I can have shellfish, so I don’t know if there’s something about gills but I am definitely allergic. I want to clarify because a lot of people don’t take it seriously: LIFE-THREATENING. I do not break out in hives or sneeze a little, my air hole closes up- rapidly (anaphylaxis). I know that a lot of people get omega-3 from fish oil, and that is obviously not an option for me. I get mine from algae based pills that have the EPA and DHA also, but I have to admit I got really antsy at the point where you said you’ll go into why the animal based are better next time. Obviously my situation is what it is, but I kind of want to know at least how MUCH better off those of us that can handle the fish are. I’m gonna be selfish and hope it’s very little. I can give the exact name and other info when I get home if you want to recommend an alternative.

    If you just have to tell me to piss off and wait for the next article, that’s fine, too. Thanks for all the info thus far.

  • Timmy Mac

    I was a vegan for almost 2 years (from ages 40-41). I mostly tried it to see what it was like. Initially, I felt really good, so I kept it up. By the end, I was fatter, sicker, and less healthy by almost any measure. Once I started eating animal protein again, my health improved, I could maintain more intense workouts, and I dropped fat very quickly. The only thing I miss about being vegan are the poops.

    • meatisgood

      Not to be gross, but I’ve found the Paleo diet gives amazing poops! All that roughage from the vegetation you should be eating is a better aid to digestion than all that fiber in the whole grains people think they’re supposed to be eating. In fact, if I do eat grains, I find I’m more constipated :(

    • Eberhardt Kalmár Huhn

      Brother, you’re speaking the truth. Amen.

      As to the poops, you can eat a lot of red meat, as long as you also eat raw veggies. Flax seed (in moderation) is great too, if you get that in every day. What’s moderation? Depends on the person. For me, it’s 1/4 cup in the morning, 1/4 cup in the evening.

      Then there’s also the matter of hydration. Start your day with 2 liters of water. Ideally, it should be distilled water, not tap.

      Uhm… ya, that’s your so called daily requirements of water, which is all hogwash. you need a lot more than 8 cups/2 liters.

      • Leguman

        What about all the vegan bodybuilders? How can they do it?

        • ILAM

          Its called steroids

    • Wesley M

      You can eat like crap regardless whether you eat meat or not. Why we don’t eat McDonalds? Because we know their food if filled with fillers and preservatives to keep the food from spoiling. Besides, McDonalds “beef” has been proven to contain between 6% to 15% of meat – almost a vegetarian meal! hehe. So you were basically a “junk food” vegan. You can’t survive on highly processed veggie burgers and “dogless” hot dogs. Look up the starch solution by Dr McDougall and 80/10/10. Low fat, high carb diet is the best for maximum energy.

    • domgalloway

      someone doesn’t know how to have a balanced diet. ^ but hey don’t worry, not everyone is smart. :^)

  • MaryEMary

    I’m a “fallen vegan” who now eats eggs and fish because I’m doing CBL via CJ Murphy and am trying to go with his recommendations as much as possible. I also see more muscle growth with at least dairy protein.

    Keifer, I love CBL, outstanding work.

    I agree with much of the article and disagree or see it telling only part of the story with others.

    So, without getting into the whole magilla, I will say that I’ve seen it cited that gaunt skinny people seem to more or less be the only people who reach the range of 100 years of age, so that probably tells us something.

    However, I would rather smash serious weights, break powerlifting records, function as a quasi-superhero, and have some girly curves, than live to be 100. So, yeah.

    • hello

      It tells us exactly that an observation doesn’t provide us with any sufficient evidence to make claims about why they reached 100 years of age.

  • karim

    same opinion like CoryMcC! i am also an lacto-ovo vegetarian. getting plenty of protein and fat is no problem. btw: i competed @ ifbb amateur championships and got second place from 6 competitors and i have NO FUCKING GOOD GENETICS.
    Mr. Kiefer your carb backload is amazing (i wish i had tried it BEFORE my contest), but not your thoughts about vegetarian life ^^

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  • Saav


    Are you ridiculously tired of everyone using the “what’s your major” argument? I would be if I were you. As a casual reader of your site I’ve heard it an exhausting number of times.

    Thanks for posting the information. It’s always a treat to read your articles because most of them resemble research reviews. Everyone is free to draw their own conclusions from the research. If they have the right major name of course, since that’s the only way they’d be able to understand it.

  • Slash

    “zombiesarepimps” says the vegan. Ironic no?

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  • Jason

    Just going through some of your sources. The first one I looked up (11), concluded exactly the opposite to what you’re saying. http://scien.net/serum/vitamin/nutrient-intake-and-health-status-of-vegans-chemical-analyses-of-diets-using-the-duplicate-portion-sampling-technique#.UJsUb8XMijQ “but the intake of essential amino acids by the vegans exceeded recommendations”. Not to mention their final conclusion: “No clinical signs of nutritional deficiency were observed in the vegans”. Ill keep going through your sources but for someone who loves good science your off to a bad start! And anyone can pick an unhealthy looking vegan and make generalisations, just like anyone can pick an unhealthy meat eater and do the same. Find someone who goes against what you pre suppose about vegans and try to challenge them. That is GOOD science. Peace. Jason

    • http://www.facebook.com/ElysianPhoenix Riordan Phoenix Whitehouse


      This nutritional study took place using a 24-hour diet taken against a mixed Swedish diet as a control group. While they found that the uptake on aminos increased in the Vegan diet, there is no itemised breakdown of the amino profiles for either diet group. You can overload the body with as many protein strands as you like but when it comes to sustaining muscle growth in the absence of carbohydrates you need key amino acids such as leucine to aid here, and if they’re not getting leucine in the Vegan diet then muscle growth is sub-par at best, if not downregulated.

      Selenium and iodine were much lower, and B12 intake was 10-fold lower. The reason selenium levels were almost undetectable is that the trace mineral is mostly found in fish, eggs, chicken, beef and other animal sources. Brazil nuts are a massive source, but are they part of the Vegan diet used here? As the study uses a Swedish diet as a control group, I’d doubt it. If the soil is high in selenium concentration, then it’s possible that plant life can absorb it, but again those numbers will be miniscule in comparison to animal sources. Associated diseases associated with selenium deficiency include Keshan disease (enlarged heart and poor heart function), Kashin-Beck (which results in osteoarthropathy) and Myxedematous endemic cretinism, which results in mental retardation.

      Iodine is required for cellular metabolism and to aid in normal thyroid function and thyroid hormone production. Can anyone tell me what happens when T3 thyroid hormone is severely downregulated? Yep, fat gain. Extended periods of time where the body is iodine-deficient can result in goiter or hypothyroidism, and in extreme cases, cretinism.

      I can’t speak for you, but selenium and iodine deficiency alone is just cause enough to challenge the views of militant vegans, I’m working to drop the fat that I have and I’ll not be smashing down the veggie macros exclusively to give my body the nutrients it requires.

      Kiefer, keep doing what you’re doing, we all know how you value integrity.

      • Frederik Emil Hanfgarn

        I read the study as well, and I got to the same exact conclusion as the very well-written post above. The iodine/selenium intake is problematic, very, very serious. In addition, vegans and vegetarians often have a rather large intake of soy. It is a curse for the thyroid. Throwing soy into the mix, when selenium and iodine is low, is extremely worrying.

        • vegtildead

          http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/ivan3.htm, this man gets paid to research and write these articles and Hess not biased as he is not a vegan but still admits soy is not dangerous.

        • http://twitter.com/kellytruths kelly

          Vegans like me control intake of soy cos any way they could be largely, GMO. My mock meat these days are DIYed with amaranth seeds and yam (mashed).

          All veggies actually have some level of iodine inhabiters. The key is not to be too greedy too, cos foods are not meant to be eaten to extinction. It is nature’s way of “control”.

          • Amanthasanthathepantha

            I can’t help but sigh at anybody who thinks GMOs are unhealthy. Sure, copyrighted breeds and crops are an economic problem for small farmers (although some companies have given away their crops free to poor farmers), but the science is very clear: GMO crops are no worse than traditional crops. In fact, there are a variety of breeding techniques that fall under the umbrella of GMO but aren’t really any different from the normal crop breeding that has been occurring since humans discovered these foods.

            But sure, avoid GMOs. You have the luxury of doing that. But lots of people don’t, and when people spread misinformation about them it just makes things worse. Without higher-yield GMO crops and golden rice, millions of people would be dead or blind. So there’s that on top of everything else.

          • http://twitter.com/kellytruths kelly

            I also can’t help but sigh at anyone who thinks GMOs are healthy. Lots of farmers in India committed suicide because their livestock (who died or got irreversibly sick) were their only agricultural machine.

            With all the weeds growing uncontrollable as well as Agent Orange, it is a blatant lie that GMO crops yield higher crops. Even Modi of India has stopped subsidies for this kind of agriculture.

            ” the science is very clear: GMO crops are no worse than traditional crops. In fact, there are a variety of breeding techniques that fall under the umbrella of GMO but aren’t really any different from the normal crop breeding that has been occurring since humans discovered these foods.”

            And the evidence is also very clear that there are thousands of scientists who are not in support of GMO.

            Am ok if you wish to lie to yourself. Have a good day. :)

          • Shinku

            Fail.. we’ve been eating GMO foods for centuries. All of the veggies you eat have been genetically modified through selective breeding for centuries. What does your digestive track do to GMO food? Devolve it into harmless base components. I discounted every one of those studies not supporting GMO food since when are vegans and activist considered as peer reviewed researchers? REAL science debunks the GMO is a threat to human health.

          • http://twitter.com/kellytruths kelly

            Talk again in 20 years’ time….then perhaps we have an idea how your health is eating GMO foods.

          • Ed Cummings

            You do realise that GM crops can be made so they produce nutrients whose the major/highest levels source for humans are animal products thus decreasing the number of animals which need to be kill by humans. http://www.rothamsted.ac.uk/news-views/first-gm-oilseed-crop-produce-omega-3-fish-oils-field https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2008/nov/05/gmcrops-india https://www.geneticliteracyproject.org/2014/03/28/do-genetically-modified-foods-cause-gluten-allergies/ http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2016/05/17/gmos-safe-academies-of-science-report-genetically-modified-food/84458872/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/jonentine/2014/09/17/the-debate-about-gmo-safety-is-over-thanks-to-a-new-trillion-meal-study/#29b6f547ca93 For many years, insulin was obtained by purifying it from the pancreas of cows and pigs slaughtered for food. This was expensive, difficult and the insulin could cause allergic reactions.
            Once the structure of human insulin had been found, in 1955, the cow and pig insulin could be chemically modified to be the same as human insulin. It is now made by genetically-engineered microbes. They produce human insulin in a pure form that is less likely to cause allergic reactions. http://www.abpischools.org.uk/page/modules/diabetes/diabetes6.cfm

          • http://twitter.com/kellytruths kelly

            Is there any decrease of animals killed? In reality? Nope.

          • Gus Mueller

            Not if I have anything to say about it.

          • justjoseph

            GMO foods have been around a long time, certainly longer than 20 years. Still no evidence of health problems directly linked to GMO. Not one case. No, not ONE.

          • http://twitter.com/kellytruths kelly

            Yeah, so are herbicides and pesticides – they have also been around for a very long time. You eat them as well?

          • GeneralDrake

            Veganism is a narrow dogmatic ridiculous RELIGION where it’s faith following crowd uses diet as a DISTRACTION. It’s all about the arrogant and obviously FALSE claim that somehow using animals for food or work is “wrong”… a clear RELIGIOUS MORAL ARGUMENT with zero bases or common sense. Humans would not exist if not for USING animals to SURVIVE for all human history. Get over your ridiculous false religion and enjoy a steak.

          • http://twitter.com/kellytruths kelly

            It is not even a religion. lol So, I guess eating healthily and for compassionate reasons IS a distraction to you. Ok. :)

          • justjoseph

            Ok, this “thousands of scientists” with no data to support.
            And then she concludes with the ad-hominum remark.
            Quixotic, infantile, stupid, self-absorbed, gullible, bt somehow fashionable in our white, affluent, educated culture with lots of cheap food options around.
            Why? PROPAGANDA.
            Now lots of people have more fear of wheat than measles
            and tuberculosis. PROPAGANDA. Baseless bull, pseudoscience.

          • http://twitter.com/kellytruths kelly

            Democracy is not always the solution. Bye! :)

        • Ellie Ferguson

          I’m vegan and I almost never eat soy… And the animals that you eat are feed primarily soy so I eat way less soy then the average meat eater

          • Gus Mueller

            How exactly do the fish and the deer get the soy?

    • people are stupid.

      It’s also important to remember that you read a study thoroughly, not just “accepting” the author’s interpretation of the results. They’re biased.

    • Danny


      I’m a vegan (4 years + 7 years vegetarian beforehand) for ethical reasons. My priorities are:

      – Animal welfare

      – Environment/sustainability

      – My welfare

      Seems odd I know, but it’s my choice – I don’t expect anyone to respect it. However, I am very focused on my own nutrition, have bought CarbBackloading and practice elements of it (why I read this post), and if I’m going to omit a large amount of foodstuffs, I want to do what I can to remain healthy. I have no problem with someone pointing out flaws in my diet; it helps me to eat better and I’m sure it’s not watertight. But nothing is.

      This article is meant as an attack on vegans to provoke discussion and make the post popular, as with most of the Dangerously Hardcore copy – which is fine. I don’t discount the 6 points are correct, and there are more too; unfortunately it doesn’t take an un-biased scientific approach to addressing them (as DH does with other subjects), which would do more for the common good than outright denouncing the lifestyle choice; unless of course it is indisputably detremental to health, which I don’t believe it is.

      In relation to the 6 points:

      1) B12 deficiency – Yes, I take a supplement.

      2) Low protein/malabsorption – Yes, but I take a wide variety of vegetable protein sources (non soy, low grain) and consume anywhere between 60g – 100g of complete profile amino acids. Vegetables, hemp and brown rice protein isolate (twice a week after workouts), nuts, seeds, quinoa, sprouted legumes etc

      3) Omega-6 to Omega-3 ration – Yes, if you eat the wrong foods as a vegan/vegetarian. I don’t, and I check just about everything I consume regularly.

      4) Gylcation – Yes, but I eat VERY little fruit, and as I said I try for a 3:1 ratio of omega-6 to omega-3 (which is shown to affect gylcation)

      5) Mineral deficiencies – Yes, for a number of reasons, including phytates. I soak foods high in phytates, such as nuts, legumes and beans (I eat beans rarely) and eat a few hundred grams of non-starchy vegetables each day

      6) Protection from cancer – There are so many conflicting papers/reports on meat consumption and cancer that I think it’s hard to draw concrete conclusions, especially cherry-picking those studies that you have. I believe a healthy lifestyle (no matter what you eat/don’t) helps to protect against cancer. Both my parents died of cancer at a young age, and were healthy (non-vegetarians), so I choose to live my healthy lifestyle to feel as good as I can for as long as I can. We’re all going to die, what matters is what you do while you’re alive – enjoy living.

      Seems like hard work? I don’t care – I actually enjoy it; I don’t want animals to suffer for my wellbeing, so I do this. Almost all my friends are omnivores and it doesn’t adversely affect my life nor theirs.

      I accept there are risks to being vegan, just as there are risks to doing CarbBackloading, eating meat or being human. It’s what you do to limit those risks, and I believe it’s entirely possible as a vegan to mitigate those listed above. You could have take the standard American diet and picked holes in that, in exactly the same way. But what’s the point if you don’t offer solutions?

      Don’t react against militant vegans, by promoting equally opposing militant views. Do something that helps people, whether they be vegan or not. If there’s irrefutable science to say a vegan diet, no matter how well managed, is unhealthy, post it without opinion and conjecture, and let the facts speak for themselves. I’d remain vegan either way, for the reasons I’ve listed.

      You missed out low creatine levels (which I choose to do nothing about) and high lectin intake (which I avoice by soaking/sprouting), by the way.

      Look forward to some replies!

      Danny (in the UK).

      • sofiane

        I like your reply, … I think beyond the possible health issues, what matters the most (to me, and I think to you) is the ethical part. I wish we could live, healthy, strong and smart without killing animals, even if this causes a little discomfort that’s ok, don’t we wanna donate our jacket to a homeless person dying from cold? I bet most people would do, even if they know they are gonna feel a little cold afterward because the other person is DYING! But the problem Danny, is that unfortunately farming kills as many living creature (or maybe more) as eating meat, we destroy forests and turn them into big farms, and where does all the little birds, squirrels, rabbits,… go? They have nowhere to go, they have no forest and they die… but then what is the solution? I really love all living creatures, but I love people even more , what is the solution, how can we all live and be ethical when there is 7 billion of us? We all say no to GMOs, say no to meat, say no to hunger in the world … but how about if all these no(s) have a contradiction in their premise, how about if the truth is that we can’t feed 7 billion, without (GMOs & turning forests into farming lands & killing animals). So instead of becoming vegan, I decided to buy a lot of condoms and birth control pills to my girls

    • Abram

      haha the author is absolutely full of shit….

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  • jeff swanson

    “Lower body weight, higher intakes of animal protein and lipid, and corticosteroid use were associated with greater rate of bone loss.”
    Be objective. Most of the sycophants here won’t notice your extreme bias but the few logical folks will call you out on it. Vegans have statistically higher testosterone (17%) and stronger bones than non-vegans.
    While I’m not technically vegan I eat high carb, low fat and effortlessly maintain a lean physique and I have consistent energy all day with a great A1C.
    I’ve done low carb for years and it’s a great way to be miserable and unhealthy. If anyone wants to feel good; please do your own research.

    • http://www.facebook.com/ElysianPhoenix Riordan Phoenix Whitehouse


      As corticosteroids are catabolic in nature I believe this would be an expected outcome when you compare vegans and omnivores. In the presence of carbohydrates, glucocorticoid hormones (e.g. cortisol) will signal the body to catabolise carbohydrates and muscle tissue. As this study does not highlight the respective carbohydrate intake of either diet, I can only infer that this is not an isolated variable. A more appropriate comparison would be between an ultra-low carbohydrate regime for vegans and omnivores. This way the results of plant proteins vs animal proteins and lipids can be directly compared without other variables potentially colluding the results.

      Kiefer didn’t mention anything about the comparison of testosterone levels relating to animal and plant proteins, however the fact that vegans having higher testosterone levels doesn’t necessarily mean it’s unbound in the bloodstream. You would need a study that periodically measures the free androgen index of both vegans and omnivores.

      Regarding the bone density comparisons:

      This study presents the notion that calcium and protein intakes aren’t dealbreakers when it comes to bone health as there are several other factors that impact on the absorption of calcium. One in particular is magnesium, which is required to stimulate the production of calcitonin, which in turn aids in the transport of calcium into the bones in lieu of absorption into soft tissues in the joints. If the subjects who adhered to a vegan diet sourced their plant proteins from areas rich in magnesium (i.e. high magnesium concentration in soil) then a reasonable inference is that their calcium absorption efficiency is higher than the omnivorous counterparts. This makes a lot of sense to me, but in saying that, it is merely a hypothesis at this point.

    • DHKiefer

      What you interpret as a bias against vegans is merely a presentation of fact.

    • NM156

      Take your vegans-have-higher-testosterone bullshit and stuff it. I’d do it for you, but I’m laughing too hard at your monkey-like stupidity.

    • Ian

      Not that I believe it, but, higher free or bound testosterone? Because testosterone that’s bound to sex-hormone binding globulin does absolutely nothing. And SHBG decreases–effectively increasing free (and therefore usable) testosterone–when a person’s diet includes higher levels of bio-available amino acids and saturated fat; both of which are exceedingly limited on a vegan or vegetarian diet.

      • Laurie

        Vegans do NOT have higher testosterone.

      • justjoseph

        Vegans get heart disease at a VERY slightly lower rate than omnivores, but the vegan diet is not directly correlated to this
        I know some GIGANTIC vegans, btw, who gained most of their weight while eating vegan

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  • Ron

    Fuhrman is not a vegan or even a vegetarian. The diet he recommends allows for small amounts of animal products, and he says there’s no evidence that a vegan diet is healthier than a diet with small amounts of animal products. He’s into nutrient density: “nutritarianism.”

  • um yeah

    I think the most dangerous aspect of this is your lack of qualification to speak on the topic. Come back when you have an MD or PhD in biochemistry, or at least have conducted an exhaustive research on matters you attempt to address

    • dumbass

      Argument from Authority. Good job on the lack of critical thinking, pal.

      • Laurie


  • alexb

    I looked up pictures of the Dr that the author makes a mockery of….doesn’t look unhealthy or like a sucked out wraith “whatsoever”.

  • SJG

    …literally every singe point you made was incorrect (except for the B12 issues, which are only present in vegans who do not monitor their diet whatsoever). Please redo your research. Everything from an increased risk of Alzheimer’s to nutrient deficiencies has been disproved time and time again in scientific studies by many reputable research institutes. And as for vegetarian/vegan bodybuilders, I suppose you’ve never heard of Billy Simmonds, Dusan Dudas, or Alexander Dargatz.

  • itsgotelectrolytes

    ! I only wish that I had a large enough freezer to hold several carcasses of different animals. Then I could save the environment by not driving to the store every week. I think its amazing that vegans like my mother say, “this vegan diet is amazing, and I take this powder that has all my protein, and I take this powder that has all my b vitamins, and I take these supplements to get all my trace minerals and vitamins.”

    • BritneyL

      A vegan diet lacks in certain things, which can all be easily gained through supplements, while an omnivorous diet (for humans) has an increase of certain things, which is not easily lost.

    • vegtildead

      if you have a freezer that big it would require mass amounts of power and when it gets obsolete it would be destroyed releasing freon or other gasses into the environment…

    • Wesley M

      Protein powder on a vegan diet? A properly planned vegan diet doesn’t need supplementation, with the exception of b12. Because we sanitize anything and everything we need to take a b12 supplement meat-eaters included.

  • Kate Landfair
  • the guy

    god im so tired of vegetarians. think about it, our ancestors had a steady diet of both plants and animals. their diet was filled with fats and proteins. now adays, our diet is almost all bread, carbohydrates, and artificial sugars. i don’t understand why people can’t see this. The pharmeceutical industry and veganized morons can’t seem to grasp this concept. think about it, back in the 1800′s, everyone ate red meat (alot of times raw) raw milk, and fruits and vegetables that were untouched by growth hormones or pesticides. back then, heart disease just didnt exist. now, they’re telling us that the exact thing that actually was saving us from developing bad genetics and poor diets, is somehow magically bad. if lifestock is freerange, grassfed, and not locked up in fucking battery cages like they are now, the food is healthier. I know this sounds like some stupid spirituality vodoo hodoo or something, but it is scientificaly known that the healthier the animal is, the healthier their meat will be. animals are just not ment to eat grain. thats why the meat from cows that are locked up 24/7 and fed grains are so unhealthy producers of meat. AND, since feeding them grain, they dont get the right nutrition from this that they would from grass, they get sick, and the farmers give them antibotics, which kills all the good bacteria and living enzymes in the meat when its eaten. its just meaty trash. WHY? because they wanna conserve money. of course, only a capitalist nation like this can screw up the health of other people. RAW MILK CAN CURE LACTOS INTOLERENCE! i know it sounds weird, but i myself CAN drink raw milk. it tastes better, is healither, and the same reason pasturized milk is unhealthy is because the enzymes are boiled away. it completely makes drinking milk pointless and forces them to put artificial chemicals into it just so it tastes normal.Many people can drink it because its…well….actually real milk! Natural butter straight from grassfed freerange cows is unbileviably healthy. Do you know that crap they call “butter” under the lable of country crock? that stuff is GREY GOOP before they fill it with YELLOW FOOD COLORING. its just margirin oil. which they use to say that butter is unhealthy when in fact its not even butter and REAL butter is healthy. and that stuff: I CANT BELIEVE ITS NOT BUTTER!? omg, the ignorance immenating from tv is MASSIVE. like thats something to brag about… but anyway:natural localized hunny has also proven to cure seasonal allergies. if you buy raw UNFILTERED honey, it really can. of course, big pharma peddler finds the need to push his allegra on everyone who gets a sniffle…i haven’t had allergies since. the dessert wildflower unfiltered honey from nevada really helps in the summer here. Then theres maple syrup. RAW syrup without anything added actually has compounds that can REGULATE BLOOD SUGAR. in a way, can be a basic cure for diabetes. things like coconut oil are basically literally natural antibotic. its called oil pulling. swish in your mouth for 10 min and spit. it can detox your body (don’t do too much though, it can make you feel like crap if you do it everyday bacause it will eventually get to your good bacteria) the people that tell you to eat eggwhites are quiet arrogant. yes, eat the part of the egg that has about as much nutrition as rubber pff. cholesterol is one of the biggest myths ever in the health industry, good god, i want to shoot people who say this crap. YOUR ENTIRE BRAIN IS MADE OF CHOLESTEROL. no one can tell me that lowering cholesterol is good, because lacking it makes your body stop growing basically. statins, are drugs that pharma basically lied about to get out on the market. (there is so much evidence to this i dont want to write about it) im telling you, if i have sever pain, i either smoke cannabis, or self inject with bee sting treatments.its basically natures morphine shots. You can find these treatments online and certain shows about holistics have shown this. hey, atleast there’s no chance to get addicted to an artifically chemical synthesized version of natural opium called MORPHINE. im telling you, its about holistics. believe or not, statistically, people with higher cholesterol have lower rate of heart attacks and heart disease, cancer etc. think about it, most of these health problems we have now adays like alzheimers, down syndrome, autism, cancer, heart problems,liver problems, etc. can all be atributed to poor nutrition. do you know that out of all the years of med school doctors have to go through they only get 2-3 weeks of nutritional training! WTF!? nutrition is what health IS. not pills. STOP PUSHING PILLS FOR EVERY DAMN THING THAT HAPPENS TO US! and people wonder why america has so many health problems like obesity,cancer,aids, all that crap when countries who still honor the old traditions, where they eat raw meat, raw milk, and raw milk cheeses, think of this problem in their country as virtually non existent. i garantee you, if you go to france, (or really anywhere else in the world) the only fat people you will usually see are americans. and of course, the only country that is higher in diabetic rates? INDIA, who are basically 100% vegetarian and eat too much grain/bread/wheat.ANOTHER COINCIDENCE. the first alarming rates of heart disease appeared around 1900, when your very good friend CRISCO came out. haha it just sickens me that ancient medicine/holistics has been around for thousands of years yet somehow a 200 year old system of modern medicine thinks they know better..haha

    and the thing about vegetarians being sad about hurting/killing animals? HA! not only has admin proven this trash wrong with the cycle, but think of it this way, other animals don’t feel bad for killing them. you don’t see tigers setting up PETA camps all over the world. stop feeling sorry for them, its the natural order of things, ssssory??…. like i said, vegetarians do have a correct point on there treatment in factory farms. thats just sick. but if they are healthy and happy, then meat eaters will live longer and theres no guilt in that..

    also, for you vegans who are so strict for health reasons, GET THE SOYBEANS OUT OF YOUR ASS AND READ:


    POTTENGERS CATS-a study in nutrition-Francis m pottenger MD and Weston A Price DDS

    KNOW YOUR FATS-the complete primer for understanding the nutrition of fats,oils, and cholesterol

    why do you think that moron jim fixx died of heart disease? vegetarian, ate nothing but tofu, and any vitamins he lacked because of not eating meat he ate in supplements DEBUNKED LONG AGO HOWEVER: you can’t even digest those pills without fat. jim was an ignorant moron and look where he is now…

  • the guy

    another thing, there are only 2 major studies that show vegetarianism is healthier 1:The first study that is usually cited as the ‘proof’ utilized fruit flies as the test subjects. Researchers gave the fruit flies a diet just slightly above malnutrition, and found that they lived longer than the well fed flies. Who would have expected that fruit flies could live on just fruit? Should we give any credibility to such studies, which supposedly purport that malnutrition is somehow beneficial? This is clearly F.D.A. science, except this time, it’s our side cooking the numbers for political reasons. Fruit flies are hardly representative of humans, of course, and keeping one’s diet just above utter malnutrition is not a wise long-term health plan. The research also showed that while the flies did actually live longer, they experienced more health problems, including infertility. The second study, conducted by the German Cancer Research Foundation, showed that those who lived the longest were those who consumed small amounts of meat and fish in their diet. Therefore, the real core finding (the very one being ignored by the veggie cults) is that the under consumption of meat is as unhealthy as the over consumption of it.

  • Danny


    I’m a vegan (4 years + 7 years vegetarian beforehand) for ethical reasons. My priorities are:

    – Animal welfare

    – Environment/sustainability

    – My welfare

    Seems odd I know, but it’s my choice – I don’t expect anyone to respect it. However, I am very focused on my own nutrition, have bought CarbBackloading and practice elements of it (why I read this post), and if I’m going to omit a large amount of foodstuffs, I want to do what I can to remain healthy. I have no problem with someone pointing out flaws in my diet; it helps me to eat better and I’m sure it’s not watertight. But nothing is.

    This article is meant as an attack on vegans to provoke discussion and make the post popular, as with most of the Dangerously Hardcore copy – which is fine. I don’t discount the 6 points are correct, and there are more too; unfortunately it doesn’t take an un-biased scientific approach to addressing them (as DH does with other subjects), which would do more for the common good than outright denouncing the lifestyle choice; unless of course it is indisputably detremental to health, which I don’t believe it is.

    In relation to the 6 points:

    1) B12 deficiency – Yes, I take a supplement.

    2) Low protein/malabsorption – Yes, but I take a wide variety of vegetable protein sources (non soy, low grain) and consume anywhere between 60g – 100g of complete profile amino acids. Vegetables, hemp and brown rice protein isolate (twice a week after workouts), nuts, seeds, quinoa, sprouted legumes etc

    3) Omega-6 to Omega-3 ration – Yes, if you eat the wrong foods as a vegan/vegetarian. I don’t, and I check just about everything I consume regularly.

    4) Gylcation – Yes, but I eat VERY little fruit, and as I said I try for a 3:1 ratio of omega-6 to omega-3 (which is shown to affect gylcation)

    5) Mineral deficiencies – Yes, for a number of reasons, including phytates. I soak foods high in phytates, such as nuts, legumes and beans (I eat beans rarely) and eat a few hundred grams of non-starchy vegetables each day

    6) Protection from cancer – There are so many conflicting papers/reports on meat consumption and cancer that I think it’s hard to draw concrete conclusions, especially cherry-picking those studies that you have. I believe a healthy lifestyle (no matter what you eat/don’t) helps to protect against cancer. Both my parents died of cancer at a young age, and were healthy (non-vegetarians), so I choose to life my healthy lifestyle to feel as good as I can for as long as I can. We’re all going to die, what matters is what you do while you’re alive – enjoy living.

    Seems like hard work? I don’t care – I actually enjoy it; I don’t want animals to suffer for my wellbeing, so I do this. Almost all my friends are omnivores and it doesn’t adversely affect my life nor theirs.

    I accept there are risks to being vegan, just as there are risks to doing CarbBackloading, eating meat or being human. It’s what you do to limit those risks, and I believe it’s entirely possible as a vegan to mitigate those listed above. You could have take the standard American diet and picked holes in that, in exactly the same way. But what’s the point if you don’t offer solutions?

    Don’t react against militant vegans, by promoting equally opposing militant views. Do something that helps people, whether they be vegan or not. If there’s irrefutable science to say a vegan diet, no matter how well managed, is unhealthy, post it without opinion and conjecture, and let the facts speak for themselves. I’d remain vegan either way, for the reasons I’ve listed.

    You missed out low creatine levels (which I choose to do nothing about) and high lectin intake (which I avoice by soaking/sprouting), by the way.

    Look forward to some replies!

    Danny (in the UK).

    • Laurie

      – Animal welfare

      – Environment/sustainability

      – My welfare

      These are my priorities too. And because they are, I’m an ethical, paleo omnivore. I was once vegan, but my current diet takes fewer lives and is kinder to the environment and healed the disease that veganism caused in me.

      Really, it’s all in your perspective.

  • grow up.

    I think that you are highly miss informed and that you have nothing better to do than to write a pointless message on the internet. It’s a life choice that some people make like any other, sometimes it doesn’t work for everyone but truly it’s because people are miss informed and don’t know what they’re doing. Also, there may not be many body builder’s who are vegan but there are some, look it up. the reason you don’t see so many of them is because there are a lot more meat eating people out there. Stop it with your non sense and go find something else to complain about.

  • Eberhardt Kalmár Huhn

    Good article. I love it!

    I grew up in a family that was nearly vegetarian. It was all about soy, lots of grains, and of course the veggies and fruits.

    Now, I am a raw-meat eater. I have nothing against veggies and fruits – I eat more veggies and fruits in one meal than a vegan can get down in a day – but the soy and the grains made me sick. To be clear: they destroyed my immune system. I was constantly ill with one upper respiratory illness after another, from whooping cough to bronchitis, the common cold or pneumonia.

    It is a well established fact that grains are not fit for consumption by humans. Neither are legumes, i.e., beans, peanuts and soy.

    The only way for my immune system to recover, was for my diet to change. When I hit the road, my diet changed. I started eating a lot of red meat: specifically, beef.

    Later, I learned about the role that lectins play in the foods that we consume, so I removed the grains, legumes and dairy completely from my diet. I have eaten a lot of raw meat in the last 15 years, and it has made me healthy, powerful and strong.

    (You can see me completing my second triathlon at a musclebound 205 lbs here: http://eberhardtkalmar.weebly.com/eberhardt-in-action.html )

    As to SOAKING your BEANS: lectins are extremely stable proteins, so heating, soaking or fermenting will not change their structure or their effects on your body. There’s a lot more to nutrition that soaking and fermenting…

    There are no professional athletes who are vegan, because the body does not receive sufficient protein to rebuild tissue that is damaged in training or competition. Take a look at the Father of Ultra-marathons, TIm Corbett, who tried going vegan halfway through his career. He became anemic, he kept getting injured in training, he couldn’t recover and he was generally tired. His doctor’s advice was “eat meat.” He did, and he was back to his old self. And then there’s Adrian Foster, who’s a vegan “except for when he eats chicken…”

  • Leeanne

    I’ve read a couple of your other articles and they seemed so spot on.. this one however was not so much. I have seen many impressive vegan body builders and the Gerson clinic has been reversing cancer for years and it requires no animal products. Also most people that are B-12 deficient are meat eaters not to mention that B-12 comes from the soil and likely the corn fed to cows is not only GMO but terribly depleted of nutrients they would pass to us through consuming them. Most of the doctors I have encountered are not pro vegan either although they may suggest leaner meats and avoiding over consumption of red meats. Saying that vegans say batshit crazy things without flinching?? You clearly went with an unscientific bias on this one. Perhaps you want validation in your actions? Vegetarians have a higher likelihood of getting kidney disease?? I know a lot of protein is hard on the kidneys and those with kidney disease are put on a low protein diets. Many people switching to a vegan diet brag about getting sick less often and I have experienced this for myself when I tried the diet a few years ago along with reduced swelling in joints. Furthermore in the raw vegan community there are several people who get labs done all the time to prove their health as far as deficiencies. I am not a raw vegan and I am not saying you are totally incorrect either.. What I am saying is that your clear biasness discredits you and after reading other articles you have written it feels very disappointing.

  • Leeanne

    Oh one more thing! I would be Stoked if you could give an assessment on Dr. Douglas Graham’s 80-10-10 diet I have researched this extensively and some people transition and do great on it and some people just cannot do it no matter how correctly they try. This is a raw vegan diet (fruitarian) and I know you are the anti-vegan but this is something that is promoted and geared toward athletes. I’d be interested in your explanation so long as you are not bias 😉

  • jamesd3rd

    I’m suffering just wading through all the back-and-forth vegan/meat eater comments. Wah, wah, wah….it’s unethical to eat animal protein. When did all that craziness start? Most of these people were meat eaters as soon as they started cutting their teeth. At some point later in their lives, someone convinced them that it was not ok. I guess they use belts made of rope, carry macrame handbags and canvas shoes assuming none of those contain animal products. Look…bipeds rule. That’s just the way it is. Science or no science. Get over it. My mantra is ‘if it walks, runs, swims or flies, serve it up on a plate.’

  • TowerofMeat

    Vegetarian Myth by Lierre Keith sums it up quite nicely. Vegetarianism is indefensible from a nutritional, ecological, AND moral perspective. From earth to plate, vegans are responsible for far more animal death than carnivores, and the damage we doing to our planet through single crop farming is epic. I’ve heard exactly one vegan argument I respect: My buddy hates animals with every fiber of his being and the last thing he would do is eat one becuase he thinks they are disgusting. Its a far superior argument than any the vegans peddle.

    • http://twitter.com/kellytruths kelly

      “Vegetarian Myth by Lierre Keith sums it up quite nicely.”

      She ate meat during the period she said she was a vegan. Not credible.

      • Matthew Kirwan

        Ad hominem. Not an argument.

        • http://twitter.com/kellytruths kelly

          Watch her videos. She admitted she had eaten meat during the time she claimed to be a vegan.

          • Matthew Kirwan

            Still ad hominem. Piss off.

          • Nono

            Ad hominem and wrong. It’s out of its context. She was vegan.

          • Matthew Kirwan

            Still ad hominem. Piss off.

          • SweetCharity

            Oh, how hilarious! The disgruntled little poster who’s in attack mode is relying on ad hominen rhetoric. Cranky, cranky little boy. Take a nap.

          • Matthew Kirwan

            Piss off, hypocrite. You and your pathetic little fact-less tirades are not welcome here.

          • SweetCharity

            Oh, this may be my favorite of all! “You are not welcome here.” Who are you speaking for? What army do you think is behind you? It’s you, you, Matthew, little old you, trying to bang his toys because he’s been called out for being so very immature. You only speak for yourself and, yes, in many ways, that’s very sad. You’re trying to disassociate from what you loathe about yourself by imagining others are standing with you. Look around. They’re not. I’ve read your posts. You’d made such an excellent case study. Don’t you think it’s time you grew up?

          • SweetCharity

            P.S. Yet more “piss” talk. I’d recommend adult diapers but something tells me you’d have no trouble fitting into a Huggie.

          • Matthew Kirwan

            Piss off, you pathetic little shit. You ARE done.

          • SweetCharity

            Oh, he’s gone from piss to shit – the situation’s getting dire!!!

            Am I done? Well, I’m still here. No matter how loudly you stamp your feet, you can’t make me go away. And that kills you, obviously, because you just can’t resist loading your little gun with the same old expletives.

  • http://www.facebook.com/lea.bobea Léa Bo Béa

    I am a huge fan of your postings. I am also a vegan as well as a holistic nutritionist practicing non-conventional dietary methods. I don’t push veganism on any clients though I simply ask that others respect my choice to not eat animal products. I value your research, and while there are a lot of truths, it disheartens me to read many of the cliches (and “I hate vegans” BS) written in the above article. Blanket statements hurt the concept of individualism. I’m a healthy vegan athlete and know many others like myself. Not all vegans are created equal, and there are plenty of people who are doing it wrong. The same can be said for heavy lifters, low-carbers, etc. No one likes to be grouped with the idiots. I don’t normally comment on things on the internet because it’s just an invitation for a juvenile eBattle with know-it-alls and this doesn’t change my support for your ever-growing success, but I felt like I could put my 2 cents in this one time since I am a loyal reader and have referred so many clients to CBL and Carb Nite. I feel validated now, thank you :)

  • Ray

    If you want to eat meat so bad, why don’t you hunt for it yourself? Also, stop hating on vegetarians, please.

    btw, here are some vegetarian bodybuilders. http://life.dailyburn.com/diet-and-nutrition/5-famous-vegetarian-bodybuilders/

  • brawndo

    Can’t wait for the day we have signs for……” Milking a cow is sexual harassment!! We should stop drinking milk. And we should also stop the cruelty of dog breeders from pimping out their bitches for money! “

  • Sonny

    Can I say “fucking awesome” here? This is going right into my final nutrition project for my Nutrition class (read, front for government-funded vegetarianism).

  • Ellie

    ok ok….we all need to relax here and stop hounding one another, why cant we just all stop caring about what other EAT shit, what i eat and what you eat really have no significance and i doubt youll care 10 minutes from now. But since were on the subject im 21 and ive been raw vegan since i was 15, im super healthy and never had acne and im not overweight anymore…plus i dont believe in medicine so ive never had a vitamin deficiny and never taken and pills or powders. alot of vegan couldnt give a fuck about what meat-eaters do bc what we say wont change shit so stop bitching and start focusing about the more important things instead of what others eat just saying.

  • Lisa Iridescent Green

    Either this is completely incorrect or I’m just an exception. I’ve been Vegan for 17 years & was Vegetarian for 5 years before that. I’ve never had any of the issues or deficiencies this article describes. As long as you know how to cook & you eat the right foods, a Vegan diet will cause you no problems whatsoever. As for impressive Vegan bodybuilders, check out The Vegan dread (SNBF, IFBA Pro-bodybuilder) Raised as a Vegetarian & Vegan since 1998, he’s not only impressive, he’s also very successful! Also, there’s Jim Morris, in his late 70’s & still looking amazing! There are so many more.. Alexander Dargatz, Kenneth. G. Williams & Amanda Riester to name just a few!

    • Laurie

      Scientific data shows that vegans and vegetarians have more nutrient deficiencies. Your anecdotal experience doesn’t change that as you don’t represent all vegans. Perhaps most people are just too dumb to “do vegan” right?

  • Andy

    I was 100% vegan for 2 years. My cholesterol was 100 35 years ago and 110 this year. I had lost 20lbs and my muscles started fading. My naturopath said I should add some animal protein to my diet. I know I was doing everything right with my vegan diet, but I look better after only a few weeks of including cold water white fish and an egg. I have had MS for almost 40 years and few people would know. I don’t think my metabolism and brain handles TOTALLY vegan. Kind of important stuff, I’ll continue to be successful but it will be scary if I am wrong!

  • Vegan

    Really……you are delusional!!! Check your facts and scientific statistics……you are obviously stupid from all the crap you are eating!

    • Livefree

      Yes Vegans are delusional!!!

  • Obama Zombie Killer

    First worthwhile article (or book) I’ve read by this guy. This page is not BS (bro science)

  • cmhckhckhchk

    Wow all the dumb ass fucking vegan commentors

  • Fred

    What a load of seriously bad misinformation. Check the Journal of Nutrition for info on vegan diets- just the opposite of what this carrion eater would have us believe.

  • Thomas Vanderpol

    This article based on “fact” is purely opinion based. I’ve been vegan for 4 years and have not had the flu, or a cold, debunking your immune system theory. I used to give blood on a regular basis ( before I started getting tattooed) and without telling them I had changed my diet from vegetarian to vegan, they told me my iron levels had gone up since my last visit and were amazed when I told them about it. B-12 comes from soil and the only way meat eaters get the deposit of this vitamin is by eating animals that have digested plants grown in soil. The amount of B-12 your body needs is so small that you would have to be literally eating nothing but Popsicles to bypass this in a vegan diet. Ever heard of nutritional yeast? It’s loaded with B-12 and tastes great on anything. Vegan bodybuilding? Ever heard of Brendan Brazier? World renowned triathlete. Vegan. Developed a protein powder with as high of protein as whey. Eating meat is what selfish cavemen do who don’t care about the social welfare of the world’s animals. Want to end world hunger? Switch to a sustainable plant-based diet and stop using over half of the country’s grain to feed cows bred for livestock. They can eat grass. The meat industry is wasteful and harmful to the earth. We have the technology to sustain the earth on a plant based diet, reducing out carbon footprint so out kids and their kids can have something to look forward to in the future, instead of waste.

    • Cruton

      “Eating meat is what selfish cavemen do who don’t care about the social welfare of the world’s animals”


    • Livefree

      . Want to end world hunger? Switch to a sustainable plant-based diet and
      stop using over half of the country’s grain to feed cows bred for

      CLUELESS, keep living in Smugland without the reality and scientific facts the world can’t sustain that lifestyle for the population. Vegetarianism and Veganism are a First World problem. Anthony Bourdain hits the nail in the head when describing Vegans and Vegetarians. And yes I am a reformed one who was in the lifestyle for 6 years,

  • athens

    Food for thought:

    1. B12
    I’ve been Vegan for 10 years. I’ve gotten my blood a few times, most recently a year ago, and I am not B12 deficient at all.

    From what I’ve heard, B12 comes from the bacteria present in food. Meat tends to have more of these bacteria, and so is a better source of B12. However, eating raw vegetables (salads, fruits, etc.) may be a good way of maintaining B12 levels.

    2. Vegan Bodybuilders
    I’ve seen and known a couple, yes. And they were impressive (at least to me)—benching 300 kind of deal.

    3. Omega 6:Omega 3
    Flaxseed oil and Chia seed can help this. Supposedly, the body can compensate for a lack of Omega 6 by getting enough Vitamin E. Also, and this is anecdotal, but one vegan, raw-foodie girl on YouTube got her blood tested for Omega 6:Omega 3 and she came out with a very good ratio (between 5:1 and 2:1 I believe, which is extremely healthy). She said she ate no Chia or Flax, so it would have been purely from Vitamin E conversion within her body. (Personally, my ω6:ω3 is under 2:1, if my diet calculations are correct.)

    4. Alzheimer’s: I don’t know anything about this, so I’ll check out your sources.

    5. Mineral Deficiency
    Not sure about this. A well-planned, Vegan diet is rich in all these minerals—especially if the individual eats nuts, seeds, legumes, and mushrooms. On a 2000 calorie diet, I get between 125% and 300% of all the minerals you listed.

    6. Anti-Cancer Myth
    You may be correct. I’ll read your sources.


    • Laurie

      If a diet is optimal, it doesn’t need to be “well planned”. Can a vegan spend their days searching the literature for better sources of the necessary nutrients, then get those sources shipped thousands of miles because they’re out of season or simply don’t grow in the local climate? Probably. But if it was the diet humans being evolved eating, you wouldn’t need to. If you can’t find your food locally and in season, there’s no way it’s an optimal diet. Human beings didn’t evolve for hundreds of thousands of years by carefully planning their food combinations. They simply ate what was available– including the animals that ate the plants that are no longer in season and those that concentrated (B12) trace nutrients the plants contained and even created (DHA) nutrients the plants didn’t contain.

      FWIW, both flax and chia will worsen the 6:3 ratio, so it makes sense that a person NOT eating these seeds oils would have a better ratio.

      • Gross Bro

        “FWIW, both flax and chia will worsen the 6:3 ratio”

        Says who? Flaxseed has a fantastic profile, (3=6.4g, 6=1.3g per oz) it’s only bested by Krill and Fish oils. But ALL are beat by algae omega 3, which is a vegan source.

        You’re also neglecting the fact that we’re going for longevity here, we ARE NOW going for the best combinations. It’s no longer cavemen times. We’re trying to extend our lives, not just try to survive.

        • Alen

          You do realize that flax seed and chia contain a shit load of antinutrients right? Plus flax and chia contain ALA omega 3, which is converted to EPA in a 10:1 ratio. Have fun eating all these flax seeds and chia seeds, which will make your Omega 6 intake sky high.

          • Gross Bro

            Flaxseeds have minimal phytic acid. Not a “shit load” like you described.

            Are you suggesting that the body will absorb and utilize more of the ω-6 than the ω-3 in flaxseed?

            Do you have any studies to prove your claims?

          • Kent Pomare

            Your argument about locally available food is invalid. We don’t take the long way around the water, we build a bridge. What is natural and what is best for you are two very different arguments. If supplementing your diet mean you are not eating toxic food then surely this is a better choice for the body.

          • justjoseph

            those little number things are called citations LOL

      • justjoseph

        A RESTRICTIVE diet, such as vegan, MUST be planned. Humans are omnivorous, and you are feeding one VEGAN.
        You must supplement OR closely monitor nutrient intake to offset the deficiencies created from vegan eating.
        Virtually NO VEGANS do this, therefore, for VIRTUALLY ALL vegans, in practice, the vegan diet is unhealthy and potentially harmful.

      • domgalloway

        omega 3:6 ratio is bull shit.

    • Art

      Lol im 41 and a meat eater and i was benching 320lbs in the 11th grade how old were these bodybuilders?

  • bets

    Total BS… and check out some of the top vegan body builders just to get a good idea what hogwash this is

  • Ansh Mishra

    http://meatvideo.com/….just see this video….how can you eat them!!!

  • Cruton

    Vegetarian and vegan-ism is a first world problem.

  • happyfeet

    “This also explains why vegans say the most batshit crazy stuff without even flinching.”

    As a former vegetarian who’s surrounded by batshit crazy vegans trying to sell me on eating that way–I love this!

    One of the big things I noticed about myself as a veg, and about my current vegan friends, is the loss of muscle tone. It basically turns people into stick figures. Vegans often point to Bill Clinton as their poster child of good health. When I’ve seen him interviewed on TV, I think he looks emaciated and lacking in energy. Sure enough: Last month, when Letterman complimented him on his looks, he said: “You know, when you get to be our age, you lose muscle mass anyway. And man, these diets REALLY do a number on you.”

  • Gross Bro

    Kiefer is poisoning America one sheep (or t-bone steak) at a time. The FACT is animal meat causes inflammation and plaque build up in the arteries. This has been proven through science, through studies of tens of thousands of people (Harvard U studies).

    You can’t call Kiefer a quack, because he’s not even a doctor. There’s no denying that his diet works. The reason why his diet works for people is timing, not the overload of saturated fat. That’s it.

    And what a pathetic, condescending article. Real mature. Be a fucking man and tell your audience the WHOLE truth, instead of cherry picking to support your agenda. Even in the articles that you link to says that veggies/vegans exceed EAA intake.

    So, if you want to get buff, by all means, follow this diet… but if you don’t want to drop dead in the next X years from heart failure, beware.

  • Patrick Folman

    You are a sore liar, spreading ignorant BS.
    If you do it right its the healthiest thing ever, but what would you know about doing it right.


  • Heidi Synnøve Lien

    Did you know that most people who have too little B-12 is meat eaters?! Because of all the crap the animals are fed in industrial meat industry, you’re not guaranteed to get B-12 from meat either.
    A vegan diet is very healthy as long as you can read and know what you’re doing. And, YES I have seen impressive vegan bodybuilders. And also, Germany’s strongest man is a vegan.

    • kristian


      • Pat Hancock

        Vegan athlete Patrik Baboubian broke a world record for most weight every lifted and carried by a human being. Patrik lifted 1,216 pounds and carried it 10 meters.

        • james

          1-He was vegetarian, not vegan, when he set that record.
          2-Steroids are vegan

          • Kayla Marie Baum

            He USED to be vegetarian, he’s been vegan since 2011.

          • justjoseph

            Again, STEROIDS ARE VEGAN. So is strychnine, BTW.

          • domgalloway

            james… dear james my friend… his shirt says… I’M A VEGAN BADASS… please rethink yourself.

          • Gus Mueller

            3. A1 Steak Sauce is vegan…. and so good on steak!

      • Heidi Synnøve Lien

        I’m not saying vegans shouldn’t take a B12 supplement. Because we should, and I do. I’m just saying that even as a meat eater, you should check that you get enough.

    • Gus Mueller

      Just like Hitler.

  • Pragmatic health-seeker

    Each person must choose for themselves as logic dictates. Must we either be militant vegans or be militant Paleo; hanging out with Dr. Atkins in a cave?!

    How about we eat lots of whole grains, vegetables, sweet potatoes, unsweetened coconut milk, nuts, coconut oil, legumes, beans, berries, with some Stevia extract, free-range organic eggs, & perhaps some wild-caught sustainable fish and some free-range drug-free organic meat; if & when we need it? More importantly get rid of the sugar, soda, white flour bread, white rice, white flour pasta, juice (eat the fruit; skip the juice), drugs, cigarettes, booze,

    The fat-phobes are misleading us; making us sick. they restrict or forbid healthy items like unsweetened coconut milk, coconut oil, avacados, nut butters. You can be vegan or non-vegan you can be health-conscious and still eat plenty of these good foods! Too little fat mixed with lots of sugary stuff equals diabetes or other sickness. Many fat-phobes eat all too much sugary junk!

    combine healthy diet with physical activity, good jobs, good sleep, fun with friends and family, good books, independence, fairness, freedom,

    do not torture, cage, starve, murder humans. Do not torture, or starve animals and do not kill animals unless there is a true need to do so. If you must kill; do so quickly and painlessly. Do not waste anything you get from this.

    I am truly trying to seek out the healthiest, most affordable, most logical diet; but am currently making minimum wage and good jobs are hard to find and like many i feel helpless & live in fear

  • Chris

    Vegans suck. They are will imposing individuals who look down on others as well as give them a hard time. If you want to eat rabbit food then good for you just get out of my face with your stupid ass reason why I should be vegan. MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS PEOPLE. Oh and just in case you want to bite back and say im wrong heres this: http://eater.com/tags/vegan-sellout-list
    See, you idiots even do that crap to your own people. Your like a nazi gang! You remind me of some kind of exclusive Islam cult. Grow the hell up you all.

  • babsie

    Id tend to agree with jason:

    I checked a few of your ‘sources’ and while i found a couple to be reasonable flawed, I really laughed a #11 also as it directly contradicts what you listed as a fact. Vegan diets can be as unhealthy as any unbalanced diet but the fact of the matter is; a healthy diet includes a variety of whole foods. whether you include meat in it or not, the same macronutrient ratio and amino acid profile can be achieved. Im not saying meat is going to kill you, but its pretty hard to argue that a whole food plant based diet isnt healthy….there are thousands of people living as proof. They might not be the strongest or most muscular but benching 400 with 6% bodyfat isnt going to cure any diseases either. Oh and BTW, google vegan strength and have a gander. its not hard to find proof.

  • vegtildead



    -germany’s current strongest man is Vegan

    As a V I’m quite open about admitting that i’d rather take a b12 supplement be it in the form of a pill or yeast spread or dirty mushroom instead of having to rely on animal corpses , but we all have our opinions, i just wanted to butt in when i saw u said theres no impressive vegan/vege bodybuilders

  • vegtildead

    Starters, just because you put one picture of a man who for that age is fucking healthy, and one picture of some girl in a g-string posing in front of weights (with no evidence that she is a meat-eater) and then a handful of biased examples of why vegan diets are bad without even mentioning the Vegan bodybuilding websites you think people are going to fall for that? just eat your fucking meat and get on with your own shit instead of wasting your time pretending to research shit you know nothing about just to self gratify yourself against vegans.

  • Miks

    #2 .. what a tool :DDD There are VEGAN bodybuilders, not only vegetarian (did you even bother to spend 3 sec googling it??), one of which (
    Patrik Baboumian) is also a strongman champion!!

  • Strong

    The greatest bodybuilders and strongest athletes are vegans and fruitarians.
    I am life long vegan/fruitarian, 63 years old, look 43, feel 33 and still do gymnastic rings daily, do heavy weight lifting daily, hike daily, have all my strong white teeth, never a cavity, never an illness, still have my full head of hair, brains, I am super healthy and can easily kick your butt any day of the week..
    By your article it’s obvious that you are an immoral, Godless person that lacks knowledge and wisdom, for your sake I hope you can overcome your ego and change for the better.

  • Amar

    Point 1: … The microorganisms that produce vitamin b 12 are in any healthy intestine. If ur intestines dont have those (most ppl i knwo are carnivores btw which have to get injections) you simply take a supplement.

    Point 2: Proteinmalabsorption . The biggest amount of Proteins that a meat-eater consumes are Methionine and we all should know that its a big cause of cancer. The body does not even need 1 g of protein per kg body weight as an adult . Proteins are also found in fruits and vegetables. If you eat enough , it is no big deal to get 60 , 70, 90 g protein per day . If that is hard , you just eat some beans, etc.

    Point 3: omega 6 omega 3 ratio. All it takes is a tablespoon of plain old linseed per day and everything is hunky-dory .

    Point 4: (no plan what glycation means (sorry i m not english) and too lazy to look it up ) … but Alzheimer’s in this point we all know , is mainly caused by meat consumption .If Glycation has to do with sugar metabolism, then we know also that fruit (in its full and entire form) does not increase insulin levels . And that the reason number one for diabetes is fat.

    Point 5: Zinc: pomegranate , berries, avocado. Iodine: Seaweed (and all fruits and vegetables that are grown on iodine-containing soil) , Selenium :1 -2 Brazil nuts per day : everything is fine , calcium : oranges have a lot calicium .

    Point 6: vegans ( if they are not junk food vegan ) do have consistently better cholesterol levels . My cholesterol levels have dropped from 230 to 170. And when I do more sports , they will sink even further. When I had 230 (old lifestyle) i used to go running daily / 10 km and still had 230 ! Just take a look at “the leading Causes of Death in ” by Dr. Greger . He says that the blood of vegans is 3 times ( I think) stronger to fight against cancer cells. healthy whole plant food / vegan 80 10 10 for the win :)

  • A.Outrage

    No matter what your position is….. anyone can make claims and cite studies, meta-studies et al supporting either argument and until they are blue in the face. I have read studies that link Alzheimers to meat-eating. I have read studies that show vegans have improved immune systems. I have read lots of studies (none of which come from PCRM) that contradict every claim you have made here. I have been vegan for 15 years. I have a physical every year, I have blood work done every year. I sit down with my physician and discuss the results. He says I’m the picture of health – all my biomarkers are fine. I am the same weight now that I was when I was an omnivore. I can tell you that I rarely get flu’s, colds, or bronchitis since becoming vegan (it was an annual occurrence prior). Even my skin is clearer and free from blemishes and acne since ditching dairy. There are tons of vegan body builders, NFL, NBA, MMA athletes who are vegan. I don’t care what diet you are on, if it is balanced and properly planned it can be healthy. Claiming Joel Fuhrman is “scrawny” and attributing it to his “veganism” is ridiculous…. you have no idea what Joel looked like before. What about all the skinny, scrawny people who aren’t vegan… what’s their excuse?

    • Hugo Pinto

      Good for you.
      I’m 37, currently training for an MMA fight 2 months from now.
      I eat everything! Always have.
      I eat a lot of meat, even some “junk food” once in a while.
      Had a full physical a few months ago and the doc said he wished half of the 20 year olds he sees everyday where as healthy as me.

      • A.Outrage

        And good for you too. Regarding MMA, I’m sure then that you are familiar with Mac Danzig? He is a vegan. So is Jim Morris a vegan bodybuilder who is now 73 and looks amazing! Or Patrik Baboumian, a vegan strongman from Germany who holds the world record for carrying a 1,210 lb. yoke 10 metres. The fact is, a plant-based whole foods diet is not deficient in anyway shape or form. Provided one gets enough calories, it is impossible to be vegan and have an amino-acid deficient diet. Those who claim “too much soy is bad” or “not enough of this is bad” is fallacious. Simply because they fail to recognize that even on an omnivorous diet you can ingest too much of some things (even good things) and not enough of others. The rates of obesity, cancer, diabetes, cardio-vascular disease et al in our society are a direct result of the heavy meat and cheese diet of affluence we have here in North America. Eating a balanced diet regardless of whether it is vegan or omnivorous is the important thing (the only advantage to vegan of course is it eliminates the cruelty associated with factory farming). Anyways, good luck with your MMA! (pictures attached show both Jim Morris, he’s 63 in this picture, and Patrik Baboumian).

  • Hugo

    Educate yourselves, boys:



  • Sarah

    If being vegan made you fatter, sicker, or unhealthier, you did it wrong.

  • Mauricio Vargas

    In fact, the points you set up here, are true for Vegans, Vegetarians, Omnivores, Meat Eaters, Sand Eaters, Blooming Flowers, Fishes… You need a balanced diet, and being Vegan helps you understand what “balanced” means.

  • Bart PMS

    “Ever see an impressive vegetarian/vegan bodybuilder? Me neither”. – Hahaha But i did Him and a 1000-s more !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Torre Washington pic. vegetarian since of birth vegan since 1998 !!!) This article is written simply by a dumb and hater !!!

    • ILAM


  • Fencer138

    Dr. Nun Amen Ra, just look it up on Youtube. Vegan Power-lifter

  • Jenny

    With a well-balanced vegan diet, there aren’t any nutrient deficiencies (except for B12, which is easily remedied by adding supplements or not washing your veggies – B12 is produced solely by bacteria). Veganism and paleo can both be good or bad based on how they’re done. Also, vegan diets have been clinically shown to reverse heart disease. Vegan bodybuilders: http://www.veganbodybuilding.com/?page=bios_strength

  • Phil

    Patrik Baboumian – world’s strongest man – vegan
    Mike Tyson – Vegan
    Herschel Walker – football star turned MMA fighter (over 50) vegan
    Bill Pearl – won every major bodybuilding title in the 60’s and 70’s well before internet – vegetarian
    Ten time Olympic medalist, Carl Lewis -vegan

    the list goes on and on, just google it.

  • organik

    This article was obviously written by an idiot.

  • Joanne Sanchez

    1. B12 does come from bacteria and is found more commonly in meat and other junk like cereals, which is why the average american/diet wont really lack it, but according to a recent Tuft University study, 39% of Americans are B12 deficient, and only 0.5% are vegans, so no, it is not a vegan deficiency. Of course a deficiency CAN lead to a major med problem as can any other vitamin deficiency if its too high, but vegans dont have that problem bc we get all our vitamins from plants, the vitamin maker. Some vegans don’t have the deficiency, like HappyHealthyVegan on youtube, and they don’t need to take supplements. If they do, then they do and take care of it. But my guess is 34.5% of America wouldn’t even learn they were deficient.
    2.Actually, World Health Organization filled with important smart people that actually do their research found the vegan diet is perfectly balanced in proteins, because plants have protein. Superfoods have a ton, as do beans, just as much as chicken. Yes, there are TONS of impressive vegan bodybuilders. Don’t believe me? Look up Torre Washington and Austin Barbish. There’s actually about 20 featured plantletes in this months “Vegan Health &Fitness.”
    3. I hardly believe the immune system is damaged when most vegans hardly get sick in their lives compared to an average american. If i do, it is never strong and I always recover fairly quickly.
    4. Yah, and atherosclerosis can also be caused by eating too much animal fat. Plus, I have yet to read about a vegan gone bad from their diet. If anything they just give it up.
    5. Increased risk? You have an increased risk of heart failure and cardiovascular disease. Bones need these minerals yes, but then you eat a ton of veggies that have them, durr like broccoli which has a LOT of calcium.
    6. It’s cured a couple people of cancer. If you dont believe me, its cured people from other medical problems like bulimia or diabetes.
    7. I could name so many more reasons why you are wrong in your diet, but in the end, the good outweighs the bad, and the vegan diet IS scientifically healthier for the body. I grew up a meat eater and looked at your defenses why to not go vegan, now you should do the same for us. Try both sides before getting so defensive about a lifestyle you haven’t tried.

  • Ben

    I won’t be responding to replies…sorry in advance.

    I’ve been vegan for 1.5 years and vegetarian for about 5. Prior to going vegetarian I passed a kidney stone (when I was 17). I ate a good amount of meat back then. I’m saying this just as a pretext and I am NOT blaming meat for the kidney stone.

    A couple months ago I did some blood tests. Everything was totally normal except a slight deficiency of vitamin D. Vitamin D is produced by exposure to the sun…so this makes sense given that the blood test was before I started doing a lot of summer activities in the sun. And now the tie in to the kidney stone. Because of the kidney stone, I occasionally do metabolic evaluations. This goes WAY beyond what the simple blood draws can reveal. I have done three in total. One right before I went vegetarian, one while I was vegetarian and one while I was vegan. My numbers have entirely been normal. No sign of calcium deficiencies (oh yes, they check for that in spades). The only thing that has changed is that my urine has become less acidic, which my urologist assured me is not a sign of anything bad.

  • anonHEALTHY

    have you ever heard of vitamin supplements or amino acid supplements??? (PS: I’m not vegan.)

  • Clint White

    You all know this is a load of absolute crap don’t you? Apart from B12 statement that SHOULD be in the soil and on organic veggies and plants if they weren’t sprayed and depleted and you’d consume it naturally sub-lingually. Cows eat it on grass, then meat eaters do and the tiny bit needed hopefully survives the acidity of about pH 2 in the stomach, so even meat eaters can have a deficiency. You are a herbivorous biological machine that CAN if need be extract nutrients from meat and dairy for survival. Just as a horse could. Has anyone ever been to the vegan bodybuilding site or fb page? Un-Jacked un-bloated natural muscle there! Take a look in the mirror, in no way is the person starring back designed for anything else but a plant based diet. I spent half a lifetime before i worked this out and made it my business to then become a Naturopath. Question: Of all the trillions donated to the anti-cancer foundations have they ever found a cure? No, and they never will! Only better ways to treat and keep YOU on expensive drugs that makes THEM rich. The system is designed to keep you utterly confused about the magical enigmatic world of nutrition. Its pretty simple really. YOU ARE A HERBIVORE!! Sorry if thats a shock. Please wake up you are being lied to! This world is a f’d up place starting with the 1% that owns most of the wealth. Follow the money. :)

  • Eliel Elik Anoa’i

    Yes I have seen many impressive vegan bodybuilders. Have you ever heard of hemp seeds? Dumbass!

  • Wesley M

    It should be illegal to spread this type of miss-information. Inaccurate and utter garbage. In fact on most points, it’s the total opposite.

  • tilaka

    Not a vegan, but
    1) you can inject B12. 1000 µg per 2ml. 10 bottles are like 5-10$. Each lasts at least one month. Your ability to absorb it through food deteriorates with age. Therefore sensible to consider the injections, no matter the diet.
    2) Hit google “vegan body-builder” you’ll find plenty. Malabsorbtion: yes, soy is shit, avoid everything soy. But check out Hemp seed, Hemp flour and hemp protein, which depending on the situation can be also ultra low carb and has an excellent Biological value (BV), iow gets absorbed nearly as well as egg. But also contains excelent omega 3 to 6 ratio AND has the very rare ALA and GLA in high doses. That also addresses point 3). And as a moot point to 2). Why be a body-builder unless you’re an athlete or a pussy-beggar. The objective it to be healthy and strong. Not to beg for slavery to serve, to get in return – nothing you wouldn’t need if you were a real man, that is defined by not needing a woman.
    4)5)6) I’m sure this is contained in some vegan choices. Nobody said it would be easy. But watch “food, inc” to understand what kind of system you are feeding by eating american meat. This kind of meat DOES make you sick. So although there may be no official findings as to vegetarian or vegan lifestyle linked to less cancer. I’m sure the eating of meat can be found to do just that. But if money is the objective, which it is in the us. Surely there can be a way to present information from studies in “accurate” ways to falsify such cancer claims. Yet “accurate” is rarely “adequate”. Politician like to hip hop between that. You’ll figure, when you open your eyes to your conditioning.

    The entire article reads like a psychological rationalisation (okay-making) of meat eating. That is primarily a moral choice. Sure it’s easier to stick to the old ways. But even if you were getting 10% less performance, is that really such a sacrifice for reducing suffering in “life stock”. I don’t think so.

  • zapp7

    The author doesn’t seem to know much about Dr. Fuhrman, who readily admits that a healthy diet can include some meat, which is true. I also met Fuhrman in person and he is incredibly healthy. He looks very young for his age and is very vibrant and energetic in person. He is simply slimmer than the average person, because the average person has more fat on their body.

    It’s also silly that meat-eaters rely on studies comparing meat-eaters to vegans. The majority of vegetarians/vegans are this way for ethical reasons and don’t know anything about nutrition. A vegan diet is not necessarily healthy. I have some vegan friends that eat crap all the time – chips, cookies, processed foods, fake meats, etc. You guys always look at these studies as a reason to eat meat. Guess what: a study comparing an omnivore to a crap vegan diet can only ever say if being an omnivore is better or worse than eating a crap vegan diet. Using these studies as an argument for meat-eating is illogical and doesn’t make sense.

    Doctors are advising a reduction in animal products in favor of plant foods because that is what the mountain of epidemiological, case control, and cohort studies show is best for our long-term health. You “eat all the meat you want” advocates are just like the anti-vaccination people, using flawed logic to try and convince people to ignore scientific consensus and suggesting there is some sort of big conspiracy.

  • Zabo

    I have been vegan for almost 12 years now and training for 5. In that time, I went from 155lbs all the way up to 210lbs. I do take a B12 supplement but that’s about it. Everything else I get from food and, sometimes, a plant-based protein powder. There is no difference between plant-based protein and animal protein. According to the laws of organic chemistry, it’s either left or right no matter where it comes from. Also, I would like to add the fact that hormones, antibiotics, and all the other fucked up shit in these animal products is rediculous. Moreover, no set is healthy without a balance of micro and macro nutrients. Carnivore diets are notoriously deficient in many nutrient like fiber. Most carnivores are constipated and backed up like gridlock.

    • Zabo

      * Moreover, no diet is healthy without a balance of Micro and Macro nutrients.

  • vegan person

    If i could hunt deer I would.I dont eat meat because the animals go through real hell. And the meat industry doesnt care about anyones health or safety, they just want money. Do you really want to give your earned money to greedy pigs who hurt animals? I dont eat milk because it was designed for baby cows, and last time i checked, i wasnt a baby cow. Also, did you know milk can strip your bones, leaving them weaker? look it up. If i could hunt, I would hunt deer and moose, killing them in less than a second and respecting the animal by eating the meat. Never ,ever for game.

  • former veg head

    Could not agree more, if you want to really understand, try google anemia India Anemia is a major killer in India. Was a vegetarian for 20 years, then my family got sick, iron poor, body can put up with no meat for so long then….bang. Your Iron is gone and you are sick. It amazes me the number of sick vegans out there who have faith….

    • Sebastian

      Anemia is only an issue for people who bleed frequently (e.g. woman with heavy menstruation) and women who carry and nourish children. The average number of children in India is higher than in North America. Statistically, women in lower socio-economic classes tend to have more children. People in lower socio-economic classes tend not to be able to afford a large variety of food. If you fall into the high risk category, get tested. Then if needed, seek foods with high iron (there are vegan options) or supplement.

      Also note. People who are on a western-mixed diet, are more likely to have iron overload than be iron deficient.

  • Alex

    Obviously this was written by a meathead tool and is soley based on his opinion.

  • guest

    animal or vegetable protein alright I think the origin is not excessive, if obat untuk wanita frigid does not want a lot or a little problem of consumption.

  • Creative1

    Dr. Furhman just talks and talks and talks and barely makes a few references that he makes sound important for our health. He’s using PBS to sell his products and BS. If you watch is PBS rants… he never really gives viewers much info. He’s just selling products. And, using a desperate PBS to get that done. He sucks!!

  • http://twitter.com/kellytruths kelly

    ” unfortunately, is the complete opposite of science”
    Hmmm…not really. These are some of the science:

    Plant-Based Diets Are Not Nutritionally Deficient https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3854817/

    Meat consumption is associated with obesity and central obesity among US adults. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19308071/

    Non-vegetarians were 74% more likely to develop #diabetes over a 17-year period than vegetarians. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18349528

    Plant-based diets were associated with a reduced risk of cardiovascular disease and mortality compared with non-plant-based diets. – Report of the Dietary Guidelines Advisory Committee on the dietary guidelines for Americans, US Department of Agriculture, US Department of Health and Human Services in May 2010.

    Your beef once ate “weak-ass food that grows from dirt”.

  • Ripped vegan

    This is complete bullshit 😀

  • rawrnr

    you are an IDIOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Brooke

    Know what these two muscley folks have in common? THEY’RE VEGAN.

    • Matthew Kirwan

      So? Outliers exist in any demographic. They could have turned vegan a week before the photo shoot. Doesn’t mean shit.

  • Quiet Bear

    It’s funny when people challenge alternative lifestyle diets and don’t know anything about their own culturally conditioned diet. Then proceed to get shit on by people who understand the contexts of scientific studies. What i gather from this article is that you’d rather make excuses for being an accomplice of the animal holocaust called the meat industry than take responsibility for your actions. Good day sir.

  • azoreseuropa

    What wrong with you ?! This lady picture above: Those are the gluten of a meat eater. Thats dirty and showing her disgusting butt ?! Jeez. What’s wrong with you ? This is about healthy discuss and not drooling at the picture above, you pervert. DISAPPROVAL! DISRESPECTFUL!

  • domgalloway

    THIS IS THE MOST STUPID SHIT I’VE EVER READ! It should be fucking illegal for morons like this to fucking write a damn article where hundreds of people can see it.

    1. b12 is found in “soil”, the only reason we don’t get it from fruits/vegetables is because we wash the fuck out of them, in fact you can barley absorb the b12 found in these animal products, you absorb them from the vitamin form WAY better.

    2. there is plenty and I repeat PLENTY of protein found in vegan foods, SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT PROTEIN ALREADY IT’S OLD NEWS. And yes you fucking moron, there are vegan body builders who look pretty damn amazing. Maybe you should look it up next time.

    3. omega 3 to 6 ratio hardly matters unless you’re just not getting enough omega 3’s. You can easily fix this by eating hemp, chia, and flax seeds once a day. There’s tons of omega 3’s found in lots of different sources.

    4. No, we kind of don’t have that problem. if you’re so worried about it I highly suggest looking into intermittent fasting.

    5. yes there are vegans that are deficient in this, but some of us know where to get all that stuff. If someone has a deficiency in one of these then plain and simple, they’re not getting enough of them. It isn’t anything wrong with the diet itself it is because of THEIR diet. I get more than enough zinc, iron, selenium, calcium and iodine personally, but that’s because I’m not an idiot.

    6. vegetarian diets aren’t the best thing in the world for preventing cancer especially if they’re high in dairy and eggs, but a VEGAN diet works wonders for it.. It has always been known that animal fat and protein is carcinogenic, what makes you a fucking science genius able to come up with that conclusion?

    Basically this is what you did… you made some shit up in your head, and wrote an article on what you thought you knew so much about because you had heard some things before, so instead of doing counter research you just used some biased info you didn’t look further into.

    • Emy

      I do not read everything, but your first sentence about B12 is false. Vegan Society is telling it. Veganism has nothing natural, we can because the complementation of B12 exist. (else you are sure to die)
      “It has always been known that animal fat and protein is carcinogenic” No, the Campbell rapport (china study) has been debunked all and all again.
      “You can easily fix this by eating hemp, chia, and flax seeds once a day. ” Ok, becoming more and more hard. I was vegan for two years, thought it was harmless, now I see it was to be thinking a lot. I have the feeling, the truth is we have no clue if vegetalism is good or not. And if it is, it seems to ask to be an expert of nutrition. Can’t take the risk for all population based on moral-ideology that doesn’t even make sense since agriculture is the most destroying things on the planet. And your soy hamburger may kill more than your beef hamburger (raised on grass, with a good life). Because agricultural actually asked to kill every living being that were here before, to kill animals that want to take your foods, to make the soil eat with animal body and bones and so on.

      • domgalloway

        I literally have stopped giving a shit about what other people do. But I still don’t eat animal products, and I still think it’s easy as shit for me being that I come from a heavy background of cooking and a love for nutrition. But don’t sit here and fucking argue with me about what is fucking natural or not because nobody’s diet is natural and if you think one such diet exists you’re living inside of a fucking box.

      • domgalloway

        :’) so now taking large blades to chop animals apart sounds more natural than eating plants that are grown and can be eaten easily? What diet actually sounds “natural” to you because I promise you, if you were to end up in the wild eating an animal wouldn’t be as easy as you think unless you had tools, but that’s not going to last you forever. I think fruit and bugs sounds the most realistic in terms of being natural but yuck! Oh by the way everything you said to me was bull shit, like completely bull. I don’t feel like refuting but eat whatever the fuck you want. I come from a heavy background of loving nutrition (before becoming plant based), also I love cooking so my food doesn’t lack in the taste department, so it’s literally easy for me to keep this diet.

        • Emy

          we are actually omnivore, we survived because of eating meat. If not we’ll have die. Natural argument are bullshit. Are your computer a natural thing too?

          Still again I let you check what the Vegan Society say about veganism and B12 : we absolutely need B12 to succeed veganism. It’s not natural but for them it’s ” a scientific progress”.
          Vegan who do not complement get back to omnivorism or … risk to die. I dont say there is no arguments for veganism but not with falacy arguments as natural regime or health.
          So be careful about your health :-)

          • domgalloway

            Well yeah, but animals get b12 the same way we do, through their diet. Now how would animals like a cow get b12 if they’re not omnivorous? Think about a cows natural diet. Grass, they’re getting plenty of b12 from the soil naturally, so it is then absorbed into them, cows stomachs then harvest the b12 and help the bacteria grow the bacteria from it because their stomach’s are so complex. We don’t get b12 because of modern farming practices that removes a lot of the soil and a lot of the times bugs that dwell in the food. A natural diet would be omnivorous because of bugs, but how would we obtain a natural diet without tools??? How would people of gotten by before we were even able to make tools or cooking? I think you need to be more careful about your own health and not worry about what I’m doing. :)

  • Sebastian

    More cherry picked articles and spouting off weak correlations.

    1.) You are not incorrect about a higher percentage of vegetarians and particularly vegans being b12 deficient. But that has nothing to do with not eating meat. That’s an issue of current agriculture practices. The only reason meat-eaters get b12 these days is because the animal you ate received a b12 supplement. b12 supplementation is cheap and easy. Why would anyone kill an animal just for b12? Just take the damn supplement.

    2.) Anyone can have malabsorption (e.g. gastrointestinal disorders). Anyone can fail to eat a well balanced essential amino acid profile. I’ve seen plenty of impressive vegan body builders (BB). It’s called steroids. If you consider natural body builders only (let’s be real, natty is near impossible to prove these days with their being more drugs than tests), then the astronomical ratio of the number of non-vegan BB to the number of vegan BB implies that statistically far more genetically gifted non-vegans BB exist than genetically gifted vegans BB. Since no one gives a shit about non-genetically gifted BB, there will be an observation bias towards non-vegans being stronger than vegans.

    3) This is complete non-sense. Poor omega 3:6 ratio is a product of “western” diets. ALA, EPA, DHA (omega 3) can all be found in vegan diets. Only ALA, which is found in several common vegan foods, is essential. A poor 3:6 ratio will however lead to poor conversion from ALA to EPA or DHA, meaning those people should probably supplement. Yes, vegans shouldn’t be living off of peanut butter (big surprise). Those studies also state that vegans have much lower levels of LDL, which brings the HDL:LDL ratio to a more favorable level.

    4) “Within the studies, mortality for major causes of death was not
    significantly different between vegetarians and nonvegetarians, but the
    nonsignificant reduction in mortality from ischemic heart disease among
    vegetarians was compatible with the significant reduction previously
    reported in a pooled analysis of mortality in Western vegetarians.” [36] So vegetarians reduced heart disease but traded it for something else. The study showing difference in plasma levels of advanced glycation end products is way too small. Far better designed studies with far better statistical significance have ended up being a false positive results (remember the theta+ pentaquark). At worst, it seems like vegetarians might need to cook their food a bit more [interpretation stretch].

    5) All of these minerals can easily be found in vegan diets. For most people a well balanced vegan diet will contain sufficient quantities of all of these. Again, if for some reason you can’t get enough through a vegan diet, just supplement. There is no need to kill an animal. And the most common chronic condition that results in bone fractures is osteoporosis, which is a disease most prevalent in diets eating very high protein. It is known that excess protein is metabolically acidic and that without sufficient consumption of alkali-rich foods results in calcium loss in bone. A balanced vegan diet has the correct amount of protein.

    6) I can’t comment on vegan diets protecting against cancer. However, vegans on average are the only dietary group in North America to have a healthy BMI and lower incidence of diabetes. In my opinion, this is probably due to food awareness (i.e. a vegan can still be overweight when eating junk). In other words, vegans who are already thinking about the animal products that they are not putting in their bodies, are likely more inclined to think about junk food that shouldn’t go in the body. Also, comparing the muscle mass of a genetically average, almost senior citizen, who doesn’t dope and probably doesn’t care about being overly muscular to someone who is in the fitness industry, whose survival depends on looking jacked to sell products is ridiculous. BTW Dr. Joel Fuhrman, isn’t a vegan. He isn’t even a vegetarian. He is a “nutritarian.”

    Personally, I didn’t become a vegan for health reason. I believe people can be healthy and unhealthy on both sides of the fence. However, given the availability of vegan food and supplements, there is no way I can ignore cruelty and environmental impact of animal products. The misinformation in this article and deceleration that “real men eat meat” is completely close minded, childish, and chauvinistic.

  • Kinka Martín

    Dr Nun Amen Ra is World record on dead lift and is a vegan, here you have your bodybuilder.